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Calculating FAP restrictions (Read 13855 times)
Sean_Williams
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Calculating FAP restrictions
Oct 16th, 2008 at 11:57am
 
Hello Eric
referring to the image you kindly posted in the locked topic How Well Does Tooway Perform, Posting #77 ...
...
BRONZE Tariff above.

I'm feeling a bit thick this morning and can't quite get it clear in my head. Would you mind clarifying things for me?
As I understand your post, if you go over the threshold in a given week, let's say on a Wednesday, then you have to wait until the beginning of the next week (ie; Sunday or Monday) before you get your full speed back.
Can this be true? Seems punitive.

Thanks
Cheers
Sean
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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:17pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #1 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 1:25pm
 
My understanding is ..

The various integration periods, 1 hour, 4 hours, 1 day, 1 week, 4 weeks are all sliding windows, recalculated every 5 minutes, and probably worked out by simply adding up the number of Mbytes in each 5 minute period for the last 12 periods (i.e. 1 hour), last 48 periods (i.e. 4 hours), etc.

How long it takes to come out of the FAP will depend on when during the relevent period you used a lot of Mbytes.  As your oldest traffic records drift out of the back end of the window, your current total in the window goes down.

The current Tooway FAP document, which was updated 14th Oct 2008, has a revised diagram which tries to explain this.  I hope my understanding is correct but I'm not sure.  It is not very clear, but perhaps better than it was before.

I expect Skylogic will amend their FAP system based on experience.   Bentley Walker with their management of their Hughes HX hubs have successfully adapted their FAP system (which is based on fixed 8 hour period and two different lower speed thresholds) so that the number of sites ever affected by the FAP is only a small proportion of all the sites, while achieving what they consider to be a fair sharing and keeping everyone happy.  Those affected by the FAP can easily see their stats and those of other FAP sites at any time and this open feedback has been well received.   I believe GlobalTT.com also operate some good customer traffic status pages on their Gilat networks, to give similar feedback to customers.

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2009 at 9:08am by Admin1 »  
 
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aealden
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #2 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 2:20pm
 
...
I have had a look at the updated doc and I still dont get it Sad what do the speeds on the left signfy? Does that mean it goes to 100kbps / 20kbps once in the FAP box?

Added by Eric:  I understand that this image above is being revised to clarify:
   the number of 5 minute periods in the first hour
   the number of 5 minute periods in the second hour
   the number of 5 minute periods in the red area
   the number of 5 minute periods in the sliding window
13:27 22 Oct 2008
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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2008 at 1:49pm by Eric Johnston »  
 
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Eric Johnston
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #3 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 4:06pm
 
I don't understand it either.  There appear to be 13 x 5 minute periods in the first hour and 12 x 5 minute periods in the later hours.

The sliding time window appears to be 65 minutes wide.

The 22kbit/s, 100 kbit/s and the 20 MB and 25MB are unexplained.

Are the 20 MB or 25MB the hourly limit for the basic service ?  No idea.

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:34pm by Admin1 »  
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Sean_Williams
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #4 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:31pm
 
Thanks for trying to explain the (apparently) unexplainable Eric.
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welshbarn
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #5 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:38pm
 
I have read the FAP posts above and realise that I may never understand the wonder that is FAP and I must just accept it and live within its awesome power.

But I have one last question -  if the FAP kicks in after bad behaviour in a single hour and is recalculated every 5 minutes, then how did Aealden manage to cram in enough action to get put on the Naughty Step for a week?

Surely the FAP would kick in and slow him down - at first for an hour, then for a day, long before he managed to build up a week of Jankers?

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Eric Johnston
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #6 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 6:17pm
 
If you look at the traffic amount thresholds in the big example report for BRONZE tariff above.

53 Mbytes in 1 hour
100 Mbytes in 4 hours = 25 Mbytes per hour
300 Mbytes in 24 hours (day) = 12.5 Mbytes per hour
800 Mbytes in 168 hours (week) = 4.7 Mbytes per hour
2000 Mbytes in 672 hours (4 weeks) = 2.9 Mbytes per hour

On the BRONZE tariff you could steadily download 6 Mbytes per hour for a week and exceed just the weekly threshold.

If anyone on Basic, Silver or Gold tariff gets a traffic report please send it to me eric@satsig.net so I can show the thresholds here for the other tariffs.

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:18pm by Admin1 »  
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #7 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:20pm
 
Here is a traffic chart for SILVER tariff (kindly sent by aealden)

...
Tooway SILVER tariff above.

Compare with the BRONZE tariff at the top of this thread.

Best regards, Eric.
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aealden
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #8 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 11:35am
 
Thanks for posting that Eric, I have upgraded to Gold to see if that will solve my FAP issues - I will post updates of how I get on.

Regards,

Alex
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Eric Johnston
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #9 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 11:55am
 
It is interesting to observe the -1245.3 Mbytes inserted below the exceeded threshold.  A question: Why is it -1245.3 and not -45.3 ?

Assuming you were in this one week FAP state and  took another traffic record image 5 minutes later presumably the 1245.3 would have gone down a bit if you had been downloading during the 5 minute period ending exactly 1 week ago, and not doing anything during just the immediate last 5 minutes.

Does anyone know of traffic monitoring software provide 5 minute records of traffic over the past month?.

Best regards, Eric.
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Sean_Williams
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #10 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 4:46pm
 
aealden wrote on Oct 17th, 2008 at 11:35am:
Thanks for posting that Eric, I have upgraded to Gold to see if that will solve my FAP issues - I will post updates of how I get on.

Regards,

Alex


Crikey Alex - good effort. Saves us having to try it! Smiley
If you can get a FAP shot, I'd be interested to see what the thresholds are for the gold system.

Cheers
Sean
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aealden
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2008 at 10:12am
 
I am still waiting to be upgraded to Gold. It seems that even this is not easy to do!

I have been waiting for nearly a week - I chucked a bit of a wobbly this morning and it transpires that for gold service you are supposed to pay a year in advance! Although my provider is looking into taking this on for me. Should hear back by lunch.

I don't think I can blame my provider for this one I think this is another bit of Sky Logic craziness. I remember the silver I needed to pay 3 months in advance. Is this normal in the satellite ISP industry?

By the way, I have been unable to obtain an updated FAP graph since the last one. The one I did receive  was not dated, and not emailed to me until several days after the event so it is virtually impossible to really make anything of it.

By the way, it came on nicely on Friday but was off again by the end of the day. it has been unusable since. I am hoping that if they do manage to upgrade me to gold I might see some difference.

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aealden
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2008 at 11:30am
 
--> It looks they are a bit overworked Smiley

Me Too Fritz Smiley Overworked and overstressed as a direct result of my Internet issues! Smiley

--> Yes very normal.

OK that's handy to know, it seems slightly irregular to me. I am not sure I would be prepared to pay an unexpected 1200 Euros for 1 year up front, just for the privilege of  upgrading my package. I already paid 3 months in advance which should be sufficient.

--> Live info will be soon available. Skylogic is working on it.

Great, do they have a rough date that we can expect this? Will it be this year? It would certainly be a big step towards a  transparent and fair system.

--> Its still very very very strange, we have no problems at all in the south of europe. We use a Docsis in our office for weeks now without any problem.

Maybe you have a different FAP package, or have kept within your usage I don't know. Once I upgrade to Gold I hope all of my troubles will go away ! We will see..
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Sean_Williams
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #13 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 9:21am
 
Hi Alex
have you been monitoring your internet usage with Netmeter or similar?
On the day you got you service back, do you estimate you may have used sufficient bandwidth to become FAP'ed again?

Cheers
Sean
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aealden
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Re: Calculating FAP restrictions
Reply #14 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 11:00am
 
Hi Sean,

No I haven't been monitoring properly I must admit, it only came on for 1 day but it seems by comparing with  my new usage chart I managed to blow 500 + mbytes in a day - thats with just web browsing and RDP... But the new chart clearly shows me in the red now for the 4 week period.

I have been looking at the capabilities of my router so I will start restricting the sattelite connection to only my computer, and then log usage with net monitor for accurate results.

What about you have you been monitoring? Have you found a way of prescribing so that you pretty much always have access without entering the FAP box?

I have given up on the idea of gold, they want a year up front... so forget it!

Regards,

Alex


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