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How well does Tooway perform?

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Jul 27th, 2008 at 12:57pm  
Hi

I am looking at getting a two way satellite system as I am unable to get broadband any other way.

I have read on this forum some of the difficulties with the installation of the system which does raise some concerns.

What I am interested in primarily is those users out there who have go it going how well is it performing? Is the speed on upload and download constant during the day? Does it drop out at all? If it does drop out are there any factors that can be attributed to the drop out? Does the Grade of Service actually kick in and what effect does this have and how do you know if you have hit it (other than everything grinding to a halt!)?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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Reply #1 - Jul 27th, 2008 at 3:52pm  
Hi
I have just set up a TooWay system(2 days) and I am now up and running. I am having a few issues with the upload being a little sluggish but the guys at BW are trying to work it out for me. Not sure at present if it is my alignment, my pc or just the way it is going to be.
Will report back over the next few days and let you know.
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Reply #2 - Jul 27th, 2008 at 4:12pm  
The Tooway Fair Access Policy (FAP), as applied by Skylogic, is described here:
http://www.satsig.net/tooway/tooway-grade-of-service-2009.pdf

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2016 at 7:20pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2008 at 9:26pm  
Thanks for your initial replies. Please keep me posted. What sort of speeds are you getting welshbarn on uploads?

ChasN
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Reply #4 - Jul 28th, 2008 at 4:45pm  
Hello ChasN
regarding the installation of the system, I would say it was fairly easy for anyone capable of drilling 'secure' holes in masonry.

I feel the key to the whole process is accuracy.

There are two areas that need to be really accurate:

1. Making sure the dish mounting pole is absolutely plumb vertical in all directions - then you needn't get involved in adjusting direction settings to compensate.

2. Alignment of the dish itself, which is straightforward provided time is taken to be absolutely certain of the Azimuth setting you set the dish at to begin with.
The Elevation and Polarity settings are easy as they can be set on the dish calibration markings (I'm sure there's a better word for that!).

Also, I'd say it would be much harder without a meter such as the Horizon MiniSat, which I found worked brilliantly.

HTH
Sean
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Reply #5 - Jul 28th, 2008 at 5:10pm  
Hi ChasN,
At the moment the speeds are up and down as there is somesort of issue that BW are looking into, I think.
According to some existing users the speeds are not normally so irratic.
So far I have been using www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk and the speeds have varied hugely from
Best Download - 1951kbps to as low as 750. But seem to be around the 1800 mark.
The upload has fluctuated even more - the best so far has been 189 and the worst 29.
But I don't think this is anything to go by as I have only been set up since Thursday and like others have mentioned , I seem to have come in during some sort of problem.
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Reply #6 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 10:00pm  
Hi

Have these issues now been resolved and if so how is Tooway performing now?

Thanks
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Reply #7 - Aug 31st, 2008 at 12:53pm  
Hi Chas,
The issues have not been resolved and BW are continuing to look at the issues, so I am hoping for some progress soon.
The weather has not helped over the last few weeks, but personally, I think there is more too the continuing problems than just bad rain. My speeds fluctuate a great deal on the upload side. There also appears to be a long lag before some websites appear - noticeably the BBC and other heavily laden sites. At the moment this problem does not appear to be related to peak time or weather. BW say that they are not experiencing the same problems at their base site. But I certainly am!
As I mentioned, BW are still trying to resolve the issues.
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Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 2:03pm  
Having been a user of TooWay for more than 3 months, I have gained a fair idea of its strengths and weaknesses as it affects my usage.

If you need 10Mb/s. cable or 8Mb/s. ADSL via phone line, then a move to a city is advised. Similarly, video etc downloads will cause FAP to kick-in. In my case, living in a very rural area with a repeatedly unreliable dial-up (3 breaks in the 'phone line for 2 days each, over the last 2 months), TooWay is a real boon.

My on-line speeds are usually good being around 1600Kb/s down and 180Kb/s upload (ThinkBroadband, formerly ADSL Guide), giving very usable email and web browsing/downloads. Sometimes there is noticeable speed deterioration perhaps due to contention but nothing too serious.

The expected susceptibility of Ka band to rain fade has not proved as bad as I had feared, heavy rain to the south can sometimes cause the connection to drop but re-connection is usually only a few minutes away. It does cope with surprisingly heavy rain though rather better than I thought initially.

Certain web pages loading slowly have been reported by others and this is noticeable on my system too. My usage pattern involves monitoring a number of sites regularly and these are bookmarked in my browser (Firefox 3.0.1) caching and pre-fetching are presumably allowing  rapid loading of these. New sites can be much slower.

I knew that latency was a feature of satellite technology but I have been surprised by the extent of this. It is very noticeable and if I ping www.bbc.co.uk or similar, I get a period ranging between 1200ms. and 2000ms. This is approximately double what I would have expected based on the laws of physics. I note that WildBlue users complain of almost exactly this degree of delay and some have suggested that it is a deliberate traffic handling mechanism. If true, I wonder if this could also apply to TooWay?

If I had to award marks for my user experience I would give 10/10 for ease of use, once set up, it really is "plugnplay". Performance and reliability would score 8/10, There are still some issues to be resolved but most outages appear to be weather related. Value for money I would give 9/10. For people in my situation, I believe it is very good value, I would certainly buy it again if cable or phone line ADSL were unavailable.

Good support is given by Bentley Walker, raising an issue brings a rapid reply from James although as a re-seller not the Teleport/service provider, their freedom of action to resolve problems rapidly is perhaps restricted.

The above are my own opinions based on my home usage and therefore may not be applicable to others.

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #9 - Sep 3rd, 2008 at 4:26pm  
Thanks Tony for your feedback.

Do any of the experts out there expect Tooway to be effected by the Equinox degradation and loss of signal?
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Reply #10 - Sep 3rd, 2008 at 5:04pm  
The noise temperature of the quiet sun at Ku and Ka band is about the same 10,000K so the effects will be similar to Ku band but the higher frequency 19.8 GHz will make the beamwidth narrower than for Ku band, assuming same size dishes.

If anyone is interested in making receive observations at Ka band please say your lat/long location and dish diameter and I will try to make a prediction.

Guess for mid Wales and Hotbird 13E (Ka band Tooway):

Worst day, when the satellite crosses directly across the middle of the sun: 12th October 2008 Start 12:35:00 GMT for approx 15 minutes.   Less effect around the same time for 5 days before and 5 days after, at about the same time.

Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #11 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 7:06pm  
As an installer with a number of Tooway installs completed I would say the uptime is good but not 100%, not always bad weather is the cause, download speeds average 1900kbps which is good but uploads are typically 30-60kbps, maximum 150kbps on occasion.
Latency I would say averages around the 1000ms mark which is about what i would expect.

I spend a fair time peaking up the dishes and I know I get them as good as can be, large ping times in excess of an average of 1000ms usually mean the dish could do with aligning better.

The upload speed is not as good as expected and I would either expect the speeds to increase to match the specifications given or rewrite the specification to downgrade the upload expectation.

I know which way I hope it goes!

Paul Harrison
+44 1252 560018
+34 687 256 240
Skype handle SatManES
Email: Paul.Harrison@notesconsultants.co.uk
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« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2016 at 7:22pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 8:02pm  
Hi

I have just installed a Tooway system in the South of France, Setting it up was quite straight forward.

Personally I am disappointed with the upload times which are coming in about 50- 60kbps on average. I am with Tariam and they also say' they are looking into it' and 'You are the only one experiencing this slow speed'... yeah right! I use Speedtest.net to check my speeds and the results for my IP 88.202.126.40 (Skylogic SPA) going back to April 2008 can be found on:

http://www.speedtest.net/

Also they say that they provide a free SMTP e-mail account. No they don't.

Latency is averaging out about 1100-1200ms.

Personally I think there is a case for misrepresentation on the upload speeds.
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« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2016 at 7:23pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #13 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 10:48am  
I am in the UK (Wales) and on Tooway. The last few days has seen a significant improvement in upload times  for me, is anyone else seeing this?

Also I have used Speedtest.net in the past but find it always gives a very low reading for the upload - I was told (but it may or not be true) that this one doesn't give accurate readings for satellite connections.

I just ran a test on Speedtest.net and also on www.thinkbroadband.com Both done at 10.20am UK on 1st October 2008. About 1 min apart. They give very different results -
SpeedTest.net says   1962 kbps down and 33 kb/s up.
Thinkbroadband says 1430 kbps down and 189 kb/s up.
The ping was 745ms.

Anyone else feel like testing and putting their results up? Cos I am still trying to work with BW to get an improvement and any comparison figs would help.

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Reply #14 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 11:47am  
For download speed of a web page try this:
http://www.satsig.net/speed-test/speed-tester.htm
It includes four sets of about 30k bytes and is representative of a web page.  You won't get results much above 2 Mbit/s since I have a 2 Mbit/s total aggregate traffic limiter on the output of the satsig server.

Regarding upload speed try sending a 1 Mbyte (8 Mbits) image file as an attachment to an email and count the seconds needed to send it.

Note that a 1 Mbyte file will get sent as a series of short packets and each packet has an overhead of packet header etc.  The modem may incorporate accelleration techniques to minimise this overhead and avoid delay checking that each packet arrives safely.

The Tooway Ka band 384 kbit/s uplink carrier is the actual bit rate for all uplink bursts, but the hub receiver will be TDMA time shared with uplink bursts coming from the other sites.  You normally transmit for less than 1% of the time.  If you send a big file the hub NMS may allocate you a more or less contiguous block(s) of uplink burst time slots so as to get the whole file sent reasonably quickly.  If no one else is busy at the time you will probably get near to the full throughput.   This might apply to a burst lasting for a whole second or more, 384 kbits or 48k bytes per second.
wxw
Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #15 - Oct 1st, 2008 at 3:05pm  
Thanks Eric.

Using www.satsig.net/speed-test/speed-tester.htm
Here are the results I got -

1st 30Kbytes took 125 mS. So download speed is approx = 240 kBytes/sec = 1920 kbits/sec

2nd 30Kbytes took 140 mS. So download speed is approx = 214 kBytes/sec = 1714 kbits/sec

3rd 30Kbytes took 110 mS. So download speed is approx = 273 kBytes/sec = 2182 kbits/sec

4th 30Kbytes took 140 mS. So download speed is approx = 214 kBytes/sec = 1714 kbits/sec

Overall average download speed is approx = 233 kBytes/sec = 1864 kbits/sec

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« Last Edit: Oct 3rd, 2008 at 5:35am by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #16 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 6:28pm  
Hi,

I have just run 3 speedtests within 2 minutes:

Speedtest.net 3100/101
wugnet.com 1840/120
thinkbroadband.com 1642/217
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Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 11:05am  
Welshbarn and I have been bleating away at Bentley Walker for the best part of two months now on this precise issue, but any useful response has been entirely absent.

Quite clearly the upload speed does not come anywhere near the specs quoted in the terms of service documentation.
More of an issue for me is the lengthy response from the system in providing the first page of a requested URL - usually around 10 seconds.

BW told me this delay was caused not by the Skylogic hub, but after the break out onto the internet.
I'd say this is simply nonsense - I still have a SkyDSL dialup/satellite system and it constantly outperforms Tooway by a factor of two or sometimes even three on day to day browsing.

For file downloads and uploads, once it gets moving, Tooway is much faster though.

I would be wary of Tariam and anything they said - when I contacted them about supply of a Tooway system, they told me there were "100's" of installations in the UK (untrue) and when I mentioned my dish would be bolted to a substantial tree and did they think there would be an issue with this, they assured me that "many" of their Tooway customers had exactly the same installation!
I then asked them to put me in contact with one of their satisfied customers so I could hear just how Tooway performed. I haven't heard from Tariam since ....

Noting Welshbarn's experiences in the past week of increased performance and improved system response, it may be that Skylogic have finally tweaked the sytem, although we are unable to get BW to admit this.

HTH
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« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2016 at 7:25pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 3:25pm  
ok you guys have got to take a break here!
you are getting 1500+ and you're complaining? and how much do you pay? I bet its not more than what i pay for my iDirect service.

I shell out to BW more than you pay for your Tooway and i BARELY get 500kbps ... i am lucky if i hit 900 at night! if i ever complain i get slapped with the GoS.

seriously. relax. you arent being ripped off

and as far as skylogic. i'll say it out loud. Skylogic is c**p! they dont know how to run their network.
when i was on am22/(U.K. hub --dont know who runs it) i was blazing through web sites ... the difference between skylogic (w6) and the UK hub (am22) is like night and day.
i wont go into detail about why BW plays the "we dont know" role. you get to find out this info on your own.
in other words -- dont kid yourself. THEY KNOW whats going on and THEY KNOW you're having problems.

I've worked tech support for 10 years and I know all the tricks.

Thank you!
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Reply #19 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 4:47pm  
The only reason I am having a moan is because I have been sold a system with certain specs and I have not got it.

My main reason for going with Satellite Broadband was that I wanted to keep in touch with family in the UK via Skype and to have an inclusive e-mail account so that I could ditch my ISP which is costing 25€ per month for dial-up access and e-mail.

1 The spec is clearly stated as 2048/384Kbps

OK I am getting near to the download time and I am perfectly happy with that. The upload averages out at 66-65 which is nowhere near what I expected. If I buy a car and I am told it will do a top speed of 384 mph I don't want to be travelling at 65mph. If they told me it wold be only 60-65 I would not have bought the system.

2. On the Tariam spec sheet for Homenet it clearly states 'FREE TARIAM SMTP E-MAIL'. This is not the case. When I asked Tariam about setting up my e-mail account, their reply was:

"Regarding the setting up of your email account, we do not provide SMTP on the homnet platform. However we can recommend a company called  Microtech ( www.mtgsy.net ) that can host your SMTP. Most of our customers are currently using that company in order to set up their email".

I got in touch with Micotech and set up an account only to be told that I need to get in touch with the company hosting my website and get the to change the MX records to activate the SMTP. This was going to cost £60. I have tried sending e-mails through my current ISP via Tooway and got the message:

"This message could not be delivered and will remain in your Outbox until it can be delivered. 5.7.1 service refused. Client host 88.202.126.40 blocked for spamming issues."

So I have had to keep my dial-up going for sending e-mails until I can get the SMTP issue sorted, this is costing another 25Euros per month. For something that I thought was going to be simple and included in the package it has become a pain and expensive.

3. Before I bought the system I asked if I could use SKYPE through it and I was told by their sales manager (Mark Luker) "No problems" which seems to be his favourite saying. On using SKYPE I was getting punished for exceeding my upload/download allowance. I asked them about how much  Skype would use and their reply was :

"Using Skype will use a lot of bandwidth, VOIP is not something we support"

But I asked before I bought the system!!


I have been in touch with Trading Standards in the UK and they say that Tariam have broken their contract and the service must be as described. They have told me to write to Tariam and claim damages for the additional costs and to uprate the speed within 14 days. After that I have the right to cancel the contract and send the equipment back for a refund, less the time used on the system. Which I am going to do.

I will just stay with dial-up and use the phone until we get ADSL to our village.
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Reply #20 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:07pm  
I installed a TooWay system a few weeks ago at my site in southern Spain and I must admit I am very impressed so far with the performance. Of course some people are never happy and I can see a few complaints on the forum but I feel that given that satellite broadband has always had its drawbacks the DOCSIS system is performing well.

And as some additional info; after reading a few negative comments regarding upload speeds I decided to carry out my own additional testing.  I have found that, regardless of what the speed test sites may say, when uploading biggish files the Ka band TX is performing more or less to spec (at least in my case anyway)

Best regards,
Scott Macdonald
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Reply #21 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 7:30pm  
I am very happy for you Scott.

Unfortunatley my experience is similar to Boussagues, I was sold this kit with so many grand promises! I have had it 2 weeks and so far its been pretty unreliable. I am not getting the upload speeds I was promised.. I was told that this was great system for skype by my sales man which is just simply untrue. I was also told it was easy to install.. it wasnt.

I have had sub dialup speeds for the last 36 hours and the weather today was clear blue skys.  I have checked and I am not in the "penalty box" for over use..

I will give them some time to fix this but I expect more for a thousand quid quite frankly. I dont care about speed so much just consistency. I have only had it 2 weeks but if it carries on at this rate I will need to do something.

I was sold this kit from Tariam, considering how few tooway users there would appear to be in the UK (based on what I have read in this forum)  it seems like an unusually high ammount of unhappy punters.

I think I would have been happier if I had bought from Bentley Walker.. I dont feel like I have been given honest information by Tarriam.
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Reply #22 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:40am  
Seems to me that your supplier has a responsability to ensure that you get what you paid for. Without a doubt the system is not cheap (albeit much cheaper than other comparable satellite systems it still continues to be expensive in comparison with the available terrestrial broadband options) hence you expect what you paid for.

My experience is that during bad weather the lock can be lost. This in my opinion would create problems for installations in climates prone to a lot of rain so I question the Ka band vialbility in the UK. That said you say your problem is occuring during clear blue skies and in any case as I understand it you are not losing the lock on the satellite but suffering extremely low data rates.

As I mentioned my experience has been good and I did a self install (which as you correctly mention was not easy) so I cannot explain why you are having so many problems. My data rates are good (and I use it everyday) although to be honest I only use skype for IM not VoIP. I do connect to my office via the company VPN and it always works fine (albeit a little slower).

The suppler has an obligation to ensure that the system works for you. Unfortunately of course in self install situations then we as users tend to get blamed for the problems but I would be firm and insist that they resolve the issue.

Good luck,
Scott
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Reply #23 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 11:42am  
Hi Scott -

Thanks for your comments.. I shamefully  failed to install it myself after several days of messing around I had to pay a pro to do it he used 2 x top end devices  to align it so I would hope its now pointing the right way!

The speed dropped to unusable levels for 48 hours (we are talking 15 minutes to load speedtest.net)  and then it came on for about 10 mins off for an hour and now it seems pretty good. Just did a speedtest and I am getting 2886 down and 19 up.

I am hoping that this is just a glitch as it is a new service - but it makes it very difficult to be patient when it takes so long to get any information about whats going on from provder / skylogic!

I personally dont mind things going wrong I would just prefer it if they manned up to it and kept us informed ..  Most decent landbased ISPs have a system to let customers know when they are having troubles, maintainance etc.

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Reply #24 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 1:24pm  
Hi,

Don't know about the rest of you but my signal has totally disappeared, one minute it was there and then nothing, no wind or rain, blue sky no cloud. Rebooted the modem and it is is giving me the 1, 2, 3 flashes but will not do the 4. Thank God I have not ditched my dial-up yet!!
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Reply #25 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 1:37pm  

Its a bit overcast here - now I have a flashing light no signal..Its inconsistent it was working in a lot worse weather...

This is pretty normal weather in the UK and my TV doesn't suffer at all unless its really pelting it down with high winds / hail / snow.

By the way all of the sites selling Too-way have these specs on:

156/384kbps
Ku/Ka-band

So what does that mean 384kbps for Ka band presumably?
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Reply #26 - Oct 7th, 2008 at 1:52pm  
The Tooway uplink carrier (Ka band 384 kbit/s) is the actual bit rate for all uplink bursts, but the hub receiver will be TDMA time shared with uplink bursts coming from the other sites.  You normally transmit for less than 1% of the time.  If you send a big file the hub NMS may allocate you a more or less contiguous block(s) of uplink burst time slots so as to get the whole file sent reasonably quickly.  If no one else is busy at the time you will probably get near to the full throughput.   This might apply to a burst lasting for a whole second or more, 384 kbits or 48k bytes per second. [/quote]

The Tooway Fair Access Policy (FAP), as applied by Skylogic.

This policy includes a Section 6 which is very interesting.  It says:

6) The Fair Information Policy (FIP) Information given to subscriber

• Instantaneous real time information (Push)
– Network congestion (FAP active or not)
– FAPed or not
– Punished or not

• Information on a web site (Pull)
– Account status
– Remaining Volume / Volume available
– FAP status

It is clearly the intention of Skylogic to provide real time data and web interface to the end user subscriber providing them with the information stated.    I have received an email saying that Skylogic "are working on it"

Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #27 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 12:36am  
Thanks for this . Weird I think I may be in the "penalty box" very hard to tell I will check with my provider, as is the only current method.

My speed test is at  74kbps down and 10 up. With still good latency of approx 750 ms.

Strangely web browsing seems fast and responsive virtually unaffected.

I had just got in and downloaded a largish file, and I believe someone had been using Skype / w video. which may have brought me into the box.

I have just tried remote desktop, and oddly it still works pretty respectably! Considering Using RDP to access my server is a daily part of my work this is pretty crucial –

I have just tried a download at these speeds and sure enough I am getting about 10 kbytes per sec..

If I AM in the penalty / FAP box I have to say it ain’t that bad, I suppose a way to look at it is it would be comparable to a decent ISDN connection. (although I have never had one)

I am not sure I quite understand how this sliding window works.. I have to admit. I am hoping when I wake up tomorrow I will be back at full throttle! It says in the .pdf that FAP ONLY kicks in when network is overloaded could the network be overloaded at this early stage with so few users?

Is anyone else experiencing this ?

Regards,

Alex
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Reply #28 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 9:42am  
I woke up this morining, and did a speed test and I would appear to be out of the penalty box. (If I was ever in it - although I think I was)

Quite happy to see even in the penalty box speed seems usable - surprising considering they went down as low as double dialup... but good. Maybe they only throttle certain traffic like it mentioned in the FAP rules. Thats why the downloads reported slow speed but web browsing remains fast.

probably worth doing any big downloads at night before bed, so that if you enter the box it will have time to recover by morning!
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Reply #29 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 2:17pm  
Speed test currently 1870 down and 175 up. Has been this for last 2 days.
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Reply #30 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 5:42pm  
Tooway has gone ultra slow like it did last week. We are talking 5 minutes to open a page kind of thing.

Weather could not be better, blue skys no wind whatsoever looks like its the same in Turin.

Strange... this happened at roughly the same time last saturday and lasted till midday Tuesday. I hope it doesn't last that long this time.
Anyone else getting this in the green belt?

Alex


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Reply #31 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 6:59pm  
Just to report that it is back on at 100% speed latency  so just a little blip. I am using this connection pretty much every waking hour at the moment as I am behind on some important projects.  Thus the regular connection reports.

Concerns about the reliablilty of this system are starting to fade - although that is easy for me to say as I have a backup 3G connection on my dual WAN router.

Based on my so far 3 week experience of tooway  Sattelite internet it is a lot more consistent than 3G / HSPDA although I am glad I have that as a backup. (it only costs £10 a month anyway)
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Reply #32 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 9:49pm  
Torture! 8 mins to load this page. Speed so slow that the broadband speed testers time out and can't give me a reading. This must be an all time low!
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Reply #33 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:16pm  
hi welshbarn,  I would love to know why that happens - perhaps its just a tweak their end - it only lasted an hour or so for me..

As I said its not such a biggy in the short term as luckily  I have a backup connection - I think its important to note for anyone considering this system that it is well worth keeping a cheap backup connection at least until they iron some of this stuff out.

For my part I am very glad to have found this forum - because information from my provider is THIN on the ground right now.

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Reply #34 - Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:23pm  
Woweee. I just did a speed test and I am at an all time high -

3434 kbps down (beat that!)
224 kbps up
743 ms latency (this is a little higher than I have been getting)

It seems to me that every time I experience these terrible speed patches - when it comes back its faster.  good stuff!
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Reply #35 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 12:11am  
Its down again - super slow speeds!

I have switched back to 3G  - Positive Mental Attitude here (heh heh) Hopefully when it comes back I will have gained another 30k up! I Will report news tommorow.
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Reply #36 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 10:03am  
I'm back to average! A fine 1820 down but a sluggish 128 up, and a noticeable delay in browsing. Come on, give the Tooway hamster a poke and get it cranked back up!
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Reply #37 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 10:15am  
Mine doesn't seem have to come back crawling again! I tried a speedtest but after several minutes I gave up and reverted to 3G!
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Reply #38 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 1:06pm  
Hi I am in the UK Tariam is provider.  Still down - exceptionally slow speeds.

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Reply #39 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 3:16pm  
TooWAY can behave in very eratic fashion BUT I ran a speed test at 13.10 and got :-
Date        12/10/08 13:15:54
Speed Down       1873.93 Kbps ( 1.8 Mbps )
Speed Up       149.85 Kbps ( 0.1 Mbps )
Port       8095
Server       speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk so in this case you might be subject to FAP or have a fault somewhere.
Speed is even higher now! (ThinkBroadband).

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #40 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 7:39pm  
Thanks Eric and Cambrian, of course I do and will notify my provider! I am just sharing my expereince here to see if this problem is widespread or if it is just me. Also it seems like the provider is reliant on skylogic to respond, which can take days.

It is back on full speed again now and as I have said in previous posts when it works it works really well - Actually above expectations.

I would say its about 65-75% reliable at the moment the rest of the time it just crawls for no discernible reason.  Also when it does work I am posting some of the fastest speeds here! I actually had 3mbps last night.

Cambrian, you seem very content with your connection -and I am happy for you! Personally I would like to see it more like 95-99% reliable ! Weather conditions is understandable but often it just stops regardless.

Having spoken to my provider the last time I had this trouble he confirmed I was not under any fap restrictions - it does say (I think bold or underlined) that FAP will not kick in UNLESS the network is congested, it can't be congested 4 months after launch surely? I am not a p2p / movie download freak either its just web development and rdp.

Anyway we will see if it improves - it should be more reliable than this IMHO.
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Reply #41 - Oct 12th, 2008 at 10:24pm  
ha!
good luck with that one.
I really wish you the best of luck  (the guy having trouble) getting your provider (which is the same as mine) to even do anything about it.
i am having the same problems you are. one minute i get 34KB per sec and the next its 100KB.
they will most likely tell you its not a problem and you're on a shared network. thats really the #1 excuse.
we both are skylogic guinea pigs .. you're on tooway and i am on iDirect.

oh well. life just reeks of being cheated ALL THE TIME!
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Reply #42 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 8:33am  
Personally I find the information from Aealean and others extremely helpful. Firstly it shows that the irratic behaviour of the system is not isolated to me , and secondly it gives more weight to my feedback to BW. It means I can't be fobbed off with the excuse that I am the only one experiencing problems. Like the others I am happy with the speeds when they are there but can see no correlation with the downtimes and weather or any other pattern. Saturday was virtually unusable but Sunday was great. I hope the information leads to a stable solution.
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Reply #43 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:07am  
Thanks Welshbarn, I also find it useful as a tooway user to see how others are getting along with the service!
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Reply #44 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 5:18pm  
I am so glad to have found this forum!

I am recently on a trial period with the Too-Way system and boy has it been a trial so far! Initially I was pleased to be getting 1800-1900mbps/ download (through www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk although I now realise it is probably more accurate to use the checker on this site) with 150+ mbps UPLOAD. I was watching youtube videos, browsing the bbc news site and even downloading some updates for my Apple at a healthy 150k/s.

This installation took place a couple of weeks ago on the 1/10/08, it took days to get the activation code through but it was as I say a pleasant experience to begin with, this was on the Friday night (3rd October.) I came home from work having activated it earlier and at about 7pm it just totally died down to a crawl. The next morning it was right back up again then later that weekend died to a crawl. Then the blinking receive light came on and it would not lock to the satellite. I wondered if it was due to heavy rain, I hoped not as we seem to get a lot of this don't we? I live in the SE of England incidentally.

My installer came back the following week and repositioned it and got a better signal, again I was off and everything was running fine.

I wish that I had written a diary of events but suffice it to say that I have been experiencing exactly the same issues as the people writing here. There was a week where it just kept losing its track on the signal, that now seems to have disappeared and I have a consistent IP address DHCPd to me but it is either working really well, or takes 2 minutes just to get a www.google.co.uk page up!

I am currently trying to get my provider to talk to SkyLogic, I am assuming that I have fallen into some form of penalty due to fair use policy though I can't imagine why. I have the bronze package which should give me 2Gb download a month and there's no way I could have reached that.

Incidentally, I have switched off all automatic downloads on both my Apple Mac as well as WinXp and Vista machines - they have not received updates for quite some months so could kill my monthly limit in one fell-swoop! I suggest others do the same?

Sorry for the lengthy post but it feels good to share my thoughts, I am so pi**ed off I cannot tell you. I need this connection for work (as well as general browsing) and when paying £50-60 a month expect a whole lot more! I went to this system after having a one-way for some months - this was up and down too, losing connection, having to re-dial etc. etc. I was praying for a better experience this time when paying 3 times the amount!

Does anybody have any experience with trying to connect to work VPNs with this technology? I managed to connect to work though this took forever. Everything is just super slllooooow, I have tested my laptop with it's VPN connection on an ADSL based 2mb link and it works really well. I know that satellite has these enromous latency issues, can anyone tell me if it is unlikely my VPN will ever work through this link?

Finally, I have the grade of service document and I cannot see any issue in looking at youtube occassionally or other streaming based services, as long as I don't hit my overall monthly limit why should I be getting penalised!
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Reply #45 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 7:14pm  
Hi Tea,

I totally am fed up with it myself. There is clearly something very, very wrong here and there is very little information coming back from skylogic  / provider.

Weather and FAP has nothing to do with it as far as I have observed / gathered. What provider are you with by the way? I am also in the South East.

this product cost over £1k which would be reasonable if it worked somewhere even close to reliably ! Not sure how much longer I can put up with this - it is utterly ridiculous. I am using it every day and I can report its been down all day again it is still down now.

I had 4 days in a row last week of consistent service and then down over the weekend again...

There seem to be a few providers posting in this forum, do you guys have direct contact with SkyLogic?

If skylogic cared anything about their reputation, distributors or (and now I know this is just crazy talk) even their poor paying customers...

They would get off their bottoms,  break their silence and actually try communicating directly with their customers -  letting them know what the heck is going on here. They could start by posting in this forum.

Lets face it anyone who is going to invest a £1k in a system like this is likely to research first as we have already seen with users posting in this forum.

try and google "tooway reliable" or "tooway slow" and see what you get...
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Reply #46 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 8:51pm  
Thanks Frits,

I had my dish pointed by a pro, with 20 years experience, and as I said when it works it works really really well... I can't stress this enough. Last week my average download speed could not have been below 2.3 mbps and adveage up was above 200 kbps. latency 6-700ms.

It was pretty consistent for about 4 days. This indicates to me that there is nothing wrong with my pointing or cables, would you agree? My cables were cut to size as there was a lot of extra, my provider assures me that this is not a problem, is this correct?

Again weather is not the issue, It was down a good part of saturday and most of sunday which was one of the nicest days we have had in ages. No wind, blue skies lovely. It has been off all day today a bit overcast but nothing unusual.

It seems that there is a disproportionate ammount of people in the UK having this issue - what would really help is if Skylogic aknowledged this rather than leaving us all in the dark. This lack of information would not be acceptable in any other industry!


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Reply #47 - Oct 13th, 2008 at 9:46pm  
Quote:
Does anybody have any experience with trying to connect to work VPNs with this technology? I managed to connect to work though this took forever. Everything is just super slllooooow, I have tested my laptop with it's VPN connection on an ADSL based 2mb link and it works really well. I know that satellite has these enromous latency issues, can anyone tell me if it is unlikely my VPN will ever work through this link?

Hi all,

Assuming (and hoping) all of you in the UK eventually get your technical issues fixed and have stable systems once and for all I can confirm from my own experience that connections via VPN works fine. I connect to my office using a VPN connection several times a week for a few hours at a time and it is fine.

As I have mentioned in previous posts I have been using tooway from my location in southern Spain for a number of weeks now and on the whole my experience has been good (despite my satellite dish almost being ripped off the wall the other night by hurricane force winds). I just repointed the dish and before long was up and running again. And if you are reading this Frits I used a meter this time Smiley

Incidentally Molino systems' hint to wipe raindrops off the LNB worked for me so should any of you lose the lock after a heavy shower give it a try.

Seems a pity to me that so many people are having a bad experience with tooway above all since our experience here in Spain is so good. From my perspective there can only be two posible causes - bad pointing or the UK uplink has some kind of problem; hopefully your providers will do something.

All the best,
Scott
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Reply #48 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:12am  
Couple of points from the last few postings.
1) I got BW to test my setup, after it was suggested that it was my setup that had the problem rather then the system. They came back and confirmed that my setup was 100% spot on and that there was no issue. I am still having the same problems as the others in this forum so therefore I must assume it is the system.
2) In the "Tooway Crawling" discussion , page 2, there is a diagram that shows Spain on a blue loop and Uk on a green loop. So I assume our problems in the UK are different to those in Spain.
3) When I was investigating setting up the dish etc I was repeatedly told to have a minimum cable length of 30m between the dish and the modem box. I queried this a lot as I couldn't see how it would help or hinder. But the end answer from BW and others was not to go below 25m of cable for each .
4) I live in wales and my LNB is on the roof, it rains so much here that I can't wipe the LNB after a shower or I'd be permanently up a ladder!!
Cheers all,
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Reply #49 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:06am  
Thanks for that WelshBarn, could I confirm you are having problems to the extent of Tea and myself? I have worked it out based on the last 2 weeks and it is 60% reliable ... 40% of the time it just doesnt work which is pretty poor.

For me I am 99.99% (and I know I keep repeating this) that my setup is fine otherwise how could I have 2+mbps 200+kup for extended periods. Its firmly secured by a pro so its either pointing correctly or it isnt, if it wasn't pointing correctly I would not have any service at all?

The 25m thing is interesting, some have told me it makes no difference (which makes sense to me) I mean it would be a poorly designed device that relied on  a minimum cable length surely? I didn't see anything in the modem or dish manual about it ? Any comments on this anyone?

Cambrian, you seem happy with your service, could you confirm the level of reliability you are getting, in %  Perhaps its a geographic thing?

Actually there do not seem to be many people in the UK posting here..either that or they are very quiet? Could we have more people posting how reliable their service is in a % and where abouts in the country they are?

I have been told by my provider there are 1000s of installations in the UK is this true? Posts from other users have indicated otherwise.
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Reply #50 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:50am  
Could you clarify - the minimum of 25m length cable? is that each cable what is the need for this?

My provider insists  this is not neccesary , I will push him again on this point. IMHO I would have thought it would be the other way round, a maximum of 25m cable? Doesnt signal weaken with length..as I say no official mention of anything like this in the manual .

Of course if it will magically solve all of my problems I will gleefully pull out the cable on the wall and reinstall afresh! Welshbarn, Tea please comment how long is your cable?

Can you imagine how inconvenient it would be if every product was designed in this way ! Your telephone / fax / modem / router all had to have min length cables!  hilarious!

Regards,

Alex
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Reply #51 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 1:15pm  
Hi this is BW , well I personally used a Tooway in France while I was on Holiday and found the browsing was great and email etc worked perfectly , the speeds you describe of 1800 kbs over satellite are excellent and by the way cable delivered service is not comparable........I think the slow down you describe ESPECIALLY if you have been streaming must be FAP cutting in and there will be an acessable web page soon so we can check and see at a glance if thats the case or not but your posts and the description of streaming would ceratinly lead me to believe that is the reason for the issues ,  anway I will keep montoring my system at home but so far I cant see much reason for any dissatisfaction other than one has to accept this is a Satellite based service and apart from the lower levels of performance compared to  that of a cable delivered service offers if no cable service exists then the benefits are enormous!!

A Walker
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Reply #52 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 2:12pm  
My dish is at the other end of a long building where my end-point modem is sited so it is definitely greater than 25 metres in length. I agree with comments about cable length - I have never heard of a cable having to be long rather than short, surely signals degrade over a longer distance!

I just discovered from my supplier (Micronet Broadband) that I have been penalised and therefore in the FUP (fair use policy) though I should now be outside of it as of late yesterday. Both last night and this morning I experienced what is becoming the norm with this service which is that one moment I have very usable speeds, websites appear rapidly and so on, then literally 30 seconds later it just crawls. It can take minutes just to get a google page up.

It is running well at the moment however, though I have no confidence in it whatsoever and I'm sure that the slow down has nothing to do with FUP at times, and certainly NOTHING to do with the weather.

I have some very intersting info on FUP however, this was sent my Micronet Broadband to me as information on what constitues overuse of the service:

Below is your statistics, it seems you went over your weekly threshold for the bronze package, but it should now be out of FUP and your speed should be back now as the system shows, if you don't download for a day or so the speed comes back.
 
Every hour you do not download it 53MB  (which is the hourly threshold which explains you seeing the speed drop off on your download speeds while you where watching it) is taken off your weekly threshold of 800MB, you only just went over the weekly threshold of 800MB
 
On the Silver package you get 1.2GB as a 1 week threshold rather than 800MB and a much higher hourly, daily threshold and a 3GB monthly threshold.
 
You can use the graph below as a guide to your thresholds
...
 
I would suggested installing a software such as Netmeter to check your traffic amounts: http://www.metal-machine.de/readerror/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item14
 
Using the netmeter See if your normal usage is sufficient for the bronze package, if not its advisable to  move to the higher package.
 
I was quite shocked by this. I knew I had a 2gb limit, I did not know that we had an HOURLY limit however. I downloaded an 80Mb file last week which at 150k/s came down within minutes, ie. within the hour - I watched my speed decrease as the download went on about 10k/s every 2 seconds until after a few moments I was down to 8k/s! This was obviously because FUP kicked in.

I have downloaded the nettools and did some quick tests last night during odd minutes where the service actually worked. It may be of interest to note that the front page of news.bbc.co.uk uses about 5-600kb of data alone. More serious is that every time you use the www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk it downloads 5-6MB in it's test! Over a few days repeatedly testing with this you could use up a fair portion of your monthly limit, so be careful!

I'm not sure what to do right now to be honest, I am measuring my limits to ensure no FUP but it still slows down to a crawl anyway from time to time, I think the network has some serious issues and I am not paying anything yet, or possibly ever.

I think we all need to band together here because all I hear is the "No one else i complaining" thing which is complete rubbish. I am getting quite angry now...
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Reply #53 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:03pm  
Hi aealden
IIRC your provider is Tiriam? In that case you may as well ask the cat - everything they told me was complete nonsense.
Ultimately your provider is Bentley Walker - Tiriam is a re-seller.

Regarding the cable, I spoke to a very helpful gent at BW (they are always nice on the phone, but completely hopeless at addressing issues it would seem) when I helped Welshbarn install their system. He said that the Tooway Modem was tuned to work with cables of 30 metres in length, but a deviation of 5m either way wouldn't affect it, but not to go over 40m.
He also said don't go under 20m (I think) as this could lead to an overload of the modem. I have no idea if this is true, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Eric didn't happen along later and clarify this.

Sean
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Reply #54 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:03pm  
Firstly about the 30m cables, I know it sounds particularly dumb - which is why I queried it with everyone I could find! But the Bentley Walker guide actually mentioned it in the first place (it wasn't something I dreamed up), and I went back to them  as I initially wanted to check that it wasn't a maximum amount. They agreed that 30 min is recommended for each of the TX and RX. However they also said that 25m would be fine as I had a 50m roll and didn't want to buy more. Never found out exactly why, but it is what is recommended.
Next issue is the speeds etc. Well I started with the satellite over 3months ago and it was dreadful. I was regularly on speeds of less than 50 up. I have moaned an awful lot to BW to try and sort this out. My main issue was the delay in load time of web pages. I carried out a series of tests over an extended period and stuff like the BBC site would take upto a minute to load. About 2 to 3 weeks ago thinks definately started to improve , the load lag has reduced and the up times did increase to about 200. However this has now started to creep down again , and its around 150 today. It is however , noticeable better than it was 3 months ago.
As for the FAP , BW have not provided me with stats but I am now apparently on the Silver package and shouldn't be hitting anywhere near the rerstrictions. I don't use anything like Voip or even video. I just look at web pages and upload work files to base, none of which are massive. Occasionally I download updates and software.  If you ask me to rate it overall, i would say when it is good - it's great, but sadly the good times are not very consistent.  My downtimes seem to co-incide with yours.
As for users, there are NOT thousands in the UK. BW did tell me 3 months ago that I was one of 2 or 3 in Wales.
And finally , as for region, I believe I am about 20 miles from one of the other users Cambrian.
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Reply #55 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:11pm  
That hourly limit IS a surprise - there is no mention of this in either the GOS or FUP statements and in my opinion the ommission of this information in either document falls foul of the Trades & Descriptions Act.

I feel this whole area of what Tooway users are supposed to be provided with for their money is very vague - perhaps deliberately?

When we installed Tooway, we were fully aware of the speeds we could expect from the system in real use, and when the system works I'd say it performs better than the minimum. But these repeated periods of unresponsiveness, crawling and downtime are simply not acceptable.

Sean
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Reply #56 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:28pm  
Hello BW
I'm afraid I find your posting disingenuous - you're dodging the issue here. Most of the UK users on this forum are suffering from loss of service, unresponsiveness, low speeds and general unreliability.
For you to comment that you found it OK on holiday in France is neither convincing nor helpful.

Your comment that this is to be expected from a Satellite Service is misleading.
I also have a SkyDSL satellite system (ie; dial-up uplink and 1 Gb down) which for internet browsing outperforms Tooway easily and everytime, particularly on responsiveness and uptime. The exception to this is for large file downloads.

I think it's time you guys began to take part in an active programme of assessment and assistance with a view to improving this service, on a one to one basis if appropriate, rather than making the occasional obtuse passing comments.

Bearing in mind the cost of this service, I think your company's attitude up to this point is rather lamentable.

Sean
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Reply #57 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:34pm  
I think BW is right. We have installed many systems since august and no problems at all !!!!

1) Read GOS,
2) Monitor your own traffic !! use http://www.metal-machine.de/readerror/ till Skylogic has finished the user interface.
3) Use quality cables+connectors.
4) Make sure pointing is 200% right.

We run our business at the moment on a Docsis system 24/7 as a test (our Spanish office has no landline) and we would be out of business if we had all those problems you have.

Comparing Tooway prices with other "2 way" systems ............. its very very very cheap and ........... SUPER FAST.

ps. Dont believe BW and/or US, we all talk bullshit, we just want to sell and dont like customer service ! Read some postings from one of our clients Smiley (ps. we have many like that).

Frits Blomsma
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Reply #58 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:43pm  
Read GOS  = Done that.
Monitor your own traffic = Done That
Use quality cables+connectors = Done That
Make sure pointing is 200% right = Done That.

I still don't think the UK system is working properly.
What country are your installations in?
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Reply #59 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 3:57pm  
But not UK?
So possibly there is a problem with the UK link, that doesn't affect your customers?
IS there anyone using the UK system that doesn't have the same problems as the rest of us in the UK?
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Reply #60 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 4:03pm  
Thanks for those comments, have you read the FAP document?

I thought  that it said it would slow down to 10% of the max speed, which would be about 200kbps. This is still broadband and would be perfectly usable and acceptable to me. I was clearly told by the salesman that under FAP the speeds drop to 200kps or such. This seems to be backed up in the FAP guide but that document is quite hard to decipher.

Even if it slowed down to 60kbps it would be perfectly usable ! I am frequently in the far east on slower connections and can get by... We are talking about 5 minutes to load google .. OK. Really, really slow. Dial Up is an absolute joy in comparison.

I have just called Tarriam and its more excuses...takes 2 days to respond to an email and then they say all of the other 1000 customers are fine...  they now that say I am in FAP territory thats why its slow. I am on the 3gb package.. I would be prepared to shell out the extra monthly sub (gold) if I could guarantee it would work... but so far I have very little confidence in this system.

Last week I was told after 3 days of EXACTLY the same lack of service that I had NOT entered the penalty box at all ever. The excuse then was pointing, he even tried to blame my router.... oh he also tried the weather too.

Excuses, excuses.. excuses... I am so sick of this. Pissed off is a very gentle way of putting it.

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Reply #61 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 4:30pm  
Hi All,

It seems from reading the above posts that some users of TooWay have been blissfully unaware of the dreaded FAP and its consequences.

My first thread here "Is anybody using TooWay ----" asked if the Sliding Time Window mechanism would be too restrictive. Unfortunately, no users replied but I was concerned.
It seems from posts above, that some present users did not read and understand the GOS document and may have been blaming TooWay for their problems. They may be right of course with some problems but I think from what I have just read, light is beginning to dawn.

I can't give a % performance as requested, my system has a laptop connected to it but not all the time, when this is used elsewhere, the modem is switched off.
Only 2 or 3 times in 3 months + of use have I noticed a slowdown as described and this was certainly not FAP so I suspect it was a temporary network fault. My speeds are usually about 1800 Kb/s down and 160-200 ish Kb/s up but in these slowdown periods, upload dropped to about 50Kb/s (ThinkBroadband speed checker).
I suggested a few posts back that it was well worth downloading a free bandwidth checker. I use Tautology but NetMeter is similar and at least you will then know within a bit what your usage is.

Failure to connect, or disconnections can be a problem with the VERY wet weather here in SW Wales and by chance I discovered wiping the LNB last Saturday when our Welsh Cwm was filled with dense, suspended water droplets (Mist with a capital M) and heavy drizzle. After waiting 2 hours watching a blinking LED I climbed a low ladder, wiped the dish and LNB cover, switched the modem back on and connected within 1 minute. Heavy rain, particularly to the south can also cause loss of connection but not always strangely. I have been wondering whether a silicone spray or WD 40 might be worth a try on the LNB/BUC cover - anybody know?

All in all, you can learn to live with TooWay but it is not a replacement for Cable or ADSL connections - more an alternative.

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #62 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 4:46pm  
Quote:
That hourly limit IS a surprise - there is no mention of this in either the GOS or FUP statements and in my opinion the ommission of this information in either document falls foul of the Trades & Descriptions Act.

I feel this whole area of what Tooway users are supposed to be provided with for their money is very vague - perhaps deliberately?

When we installed Tooway, we were fully aware of the speeds we could expect from the system in real use, and when the system works I'd say it performs better than the minimum. But these repeated periods of unresponsiveness, crawling and downtime are simply not acceptable.

Sean


Thanks Sean, I totally agree. Quite frankly I would rather have a reliable service at 256kbps that worked than this constant up and down. I have not been able to use it  at all for the last 3 days.

Thanks for your comments re: Tariam, I dont think I will bother calling / emailing them for help again. It just upsets me, as you say you may as well ask the cat! They have misled me the entire journey which makes this whole exercise more frustrating!

I am certain that this service does not fit in with trade descriptions, and I am certain I could easily take action here. I  paid for this by credit card so that offers a lot of protection.

Not sure how much longer I can put up with this. At the end of my tether here!
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Reply #63 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 4:59pm  
You need a hydrophobic coating on the feed window so that drops of water either form attached small spheres or run off.   A continuous wet film of water is the worst case and is to be avoided.

A more practical idea, relevent if your dish has the feed arrangement near the bottom, is to turn the polarisation from its existing position by a further 180 deg (exactly).  This may stop rain drops accumulating on the feed window.  Don't do this if the dish or subreflector becomes a bird bath !

Re-peaking the pointing will probably be necessary.

Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #64 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 5:08pm  
I am sorry to disagree Sean but try Googling GOS Sliding Time Window. It has also been linked on here by El Molino I seem to recall.

The graph on page 6 clearly shows 25MB bites in 1 hour periods and the recovery time. I am not a legal person but but nasty as it is, it seems to be a fact of life.

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #65 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 5:26pm  
Ok, I understand that UK and France are on the same link.
But do you have any customers in the UK who are not experiencing the same problems that the rest of us in the UK are?
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Reply #66 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 5:47pm  
Quote:
I am sorry to disagree Sean but try Googling GOS Sliding Time Window. It has also been linked on here by El Molino I seem to recall.

The graph on page 6 clearly shows 25MB bites in 1 hour periods and the recovery time. I am not a legal person but but nasty as it is, it seems to be a fact of life.

Regards,

Tony


Hello Tony
how's it going?
No need to be sorry about disagreeing! I'm very happy to be proved wrong at any time, but so far I have seen no evidence that I, and the other complainants, are wrong in maintaining our service, as received, is not up to spec.

The key point is described under the FAP rules - the FAP is only triggered when the network is overloaded.
Welshbarn has had confirmation from BW that the FAP has not yet been triggered on their account.

Cheers
Sean
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Reply #67 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 5:53pm  
Quote:
Does anyone have a spectrum analyser connected to a Tooway downlink, via an essential DC isolating splitter ?

It would be interesting to see just what is happening.
 
Leave the analyser in peak hold mode for 30 minutes and all the active return link frequencies will 'fill up' and become visible.   Please send any spectrum plots to me eric@satsig.net and I will put them here.

Best regards, Eric.


Cor!
I'd love to have one of those Eric - sounds like fun.
Sadly, can't help with that.
Cheers
Sean
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Reply #68 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 6:15pm  
I was told that I had not gone into FAP.
So I take that to mean that I have not gone over my allowance.
So I am not overloading the network.
So why do I experience the slow death so regularly?
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Reply #69 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 6:36pm  
Thanks, I will check but it is unlikely as I am using a new state of the art machine with Eset NOD32 .
Also I doubt that the other users would be experiencing the same problems at the same time if it were anything other than a BW problem.
I will get back to James and see if anything has been identified.
Cheers.
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Reply #70 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 7:15pm  
Ok, I'm home now and testing the connection. One minute it is working fine, the next I can't even pull up my google home page. This is not some kind of Fair Use Policy kicking in, this is a complete disruption of the service.

Unlike others on here who have spoken of reasonable browsing experiences even during slow downs, I am either full speed or virtually nothing.

There is something wrong with this system full stop, I think we should all stop making excuses about solar flares, rain drops, short/long cables and so on, we are paying for a useless service here.

Please re-read my posting from before regarding the hourly download limits, does anyone have any thoughts on this? This will stop you ever downloading say a huge update, let alone video file or something.

I really don't know what to do next to be honest but I'm not paying a penny at the moment and will try and extend my trial period. I have already been stung for hundreds of wasted pounds with the one-way system I had, that was worse than useless and regularly disconnected at the modem end of the SkyDSL box, or worse stayed connected at the phone line but the DSL box lost it's IP so that I could no longer ping it. Aaaaagggghh. I really hoped that the extra expense of this system would mean a reliable service....
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Reply #71 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:06pm  
Quote: "You need a hydrophobic coating on the feed window so that drops of water either form attached small spheres or run off.   A continuous wet film of water is the worst case and is to be avoided."

Thanks Eric but you don't quite understand, There is always a continuous wet film of water here in Wales (we are growing webbed feet also).

I was wondering about setting up a low pole mount and building a "sentry box" or similar to keep the rain off but a silicone type spray would be much cheaper and hydrophobic as you suggest!

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #72 - Oct 14th, 2008 at 9:24pm  
Quote:
Ok, I'm home now and testing the connection. One minute it is working fine, the next I can't even pull up my google home page. This is not some kind of Fair Use Policy kicking in, this is a complete disruption of the service.

Unlike others on here who have spoken of reasonable browsing experiences even during slow downs, I am either full speed or virtually nothing.

There is something wrong with this system full stop, I think we should all stop making excuses about solar flares, rain drops, short/long cables and so on, we are paying for a useless service here.

Please re-read my posting from before regarding the hourly download limits, does anyone have any thoughts on this? This will stop you ever downloading say a huge update, let alone video file or something.

I really don't know what to do next to be honest but I'm not paying a penny at the moment and will try and extend my trial period. I have already been stung for hundreds of wasted pounds with the one-way system I had, that was worse than useless and regularly disconnected at the modem end of the SkyDSL box, or worse stayed connected at the phone line but the DSL box lost it's IP so that I could no longer ping it. Aaaaagggghh. I really hoped that the extra expense of this system would mean a reliable service....


Contact you supplier and try to solve it with him. Its useless to post "same" complains all over and over in this forum, it does not solve it Smiley
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Reply #73 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 9:22am  
Based on the graph which I have inserted in an earlier posting, the Ka Bronze tariff (2 GB/4 weeks) has the following traffic thresholds:

53 M / hour
100 M /4 hours
300 M /day
800 M / week
2 GB / 4 weeks

Does anyone know what the corresponding figures are for The Ka Basic (1.2 GB/4 weeks) and Ka Silver (3 GB/4 weeks) and Ka Gold (6 GB /4 weeks) tariffs.

I am assuming all these thresholds apply to sliding windows recalculated every 5 minutes.

Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #74 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:18am  
Quote:
Contact you supplier and try to solve it with him. Its useless to post "same" complains all over and over in this forum, it does not solve it Smiley


Sorry but if we were getting satisfactory results from our respective providers  /  sky logic / isp then we would not be posting here in the first place. We would never have sought this forum out,  we would simply be happy in our remote locations enjoying fast RELIABLE broadband. So no. Its not useless to share our experiences here!

As far as FAP goes, I have not used the system since Sunday. I have a dual WAN router so the satellite system simply has not been in use (it is far too slow) so there is no traffic being used.

According to my provider I am in the FAP box, how can I still be in the box if I haven’t used it? The provider also promised to send me my usage report twice (update 3 times) but it still has not arrived – let’s face it it’s just another excuse because the system does not work.

Cambrian, I think you are totally wrong – this definitely goes foul of trade descriptions. It is simply not fit for purpose. It is supposed to slow down. The GOS is intentionally vague and it does not tell you how slow it will go – I was told verbally 10% or 200kbps ** Even if it slowed down to 1% it would be faster than the speeds I am currently getting **  which are unusable.

The providers in this forum keep bleating to us to read the GOS! Well maybe they should read it:

Intended nominal service
When not under FAP conditions (limitations) the user could expect:
1. A minimum of 50% of the peak Speed 90% of the time
2. A Minimum of 20% of peak speed 95% of the time
3. Applications Web Browsing and mail services
4. Very low speed and priority on all peer to peer applications

As I say it takes minutes to load Google – I have been unable to use it for days. Provider has stopped answering the phone and doesn’t reply to emails. When they do answer the phone they just make another excuse.

Last week he had a moment of truthfullness and told me that I was not in the FAP box and that all of their customers were complaining - he said that they were at the mercy of SkyLogic and were not sure if they could continue selling this product because of all the complaints.

This week he is saying I am in the FAP box - I still haven't seen the report he promised.

Now I understand why they are so keen on self installs! So they can constantly point the finger when the service doesn’t work. It seems like this has been made into an art form!

BTW> ChasN is all of this answering your question?

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Reply #75 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 2:57pm  
I finally got a copy of my report. It looks like I AM in FAP territory.

I dont understand why they would slow it down this much, why not just turn it off.. its pointless.

So I have been lied to once again by Tariam.  Amazing, I was told that the internet would still be usable under FAP conditons it also does give that impression on the document. I cannot figure out what that graph on the GOS is supposed to mean either its not clear at all.

But others here are monitoring traffic and they say the problem persists even if they stay within FAP?


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Reply #76 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 3:14pm  
I am sorry that the relations with your provider have become so acrimonious, not being kept informed always leads to anger in my experience.

There really does not seem to be anything un-toward going on with the network at the moment other than a "mid-day slow down" possibly.

My test result now is :-

     15/10/08 14:43:34
Speed Down      1894.55 Kbps ( 1.9 Mbps )
Speed Up      150.72 Kbps ( 0.1 Mbps )
Port      8095
Server      speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

About usual for the time of day. I really wonder whether you also have an equipment fault, I have never known such HIGH speeds as you have quoted in the past only to be followed by a dismal crawl.

Hope things can be put back on track for you.

Regards,

Tony
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Reply #77 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 4:07pm  
aealden

You are welcome to send my your status report image which I can insert in your message above.

Is it similar to this example below ?
...

If you have a red area you need to wait till the traffic in the previous hour, 4 hours, day, week, 4 weeks becomes less then the corresponding threshold.

Best regards, Eric
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Reply #78 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 5:18pm  
Quote:
I finally got a copy of my report. It looks like I AM in FAP territory.

I dont understand why they would slow it down this much, why not just turn it off.. its pointless.

So I have been lied to once again by Tariam.  Amazing, I was told that the internet would still be usable under FAP conditons it also does give that impression on the document. I cannot figure out what that graph on the GOS is supposed to mean either its not clear at all.

But others here are monitoring traffic and they say the problem persists even if they stay within FAP?




I think its time to stop complaining Smiley ! Ship everything back to Tariam and use your old system.
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Reply #79 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 8:50pm  
Thanks for that helpful pearl mr Europe satellite com!  I may  very well do that if I cannot work out how to get this thing working reliably.

Thanks Eric & Cambrian

Yes it would seem I am well and truly in the FAP then.. I have a red bar in the 1 week bit so presumably I am out in the cold for a week?

So are we saying now that all this is due to FAP? It has been very hard for me to accept that simply because of what I was told by the salesman when I handed over my cash and  also the GOS doc which talks of slowing down.

For me the GOS document really does give the impression that it slows the service down within usable levels - but for me several minutes to load google is to all intents and purposes stopped, its unusable !! So why doesn't it just say that, wouldn't that be more honest IMHO.

I do think its unclear and I am certain it falls short of trade descriptions - from what I gather when in the box everyone is experiencing this at the same level  of slowness ... i.e. minutes to load google etc?

And then others are monitoring such as welshbarn and he says it still behaves badly wether in the box or not.
Cambrian, you have been carefully living and monitoring within FAP and you are finding this service to be reliable within those restrictions? I really enjoyed teh 4 days that it worked last week it was zipping along ..

As I have said before I would actually pay the extra for gold if I could be sure it would work..

Sky Logic shoudl be congratulated! they would seem to have made a FAP system that nobody even the providers seem to fully understand....
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Reply #80 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 8:55pm  
Quote:
Thanks for that helpful pearl mr Europe satellite com!  I may  very well do that if I cannot work out how to get this thing working reliably.

Thanks Eric & Cambrian

Yes it would seem I am well and truly in the FAP then.. I have a red bar in the 1 week bit so presumably I am out in the cold for a week?

So are we saying now that all this is due to FAP? It has been very hard for me to accept that simply because of what I was told by the salesman when I handed over my cash and  also the GOS doc which talks of slowing down.

For me the GOS document really does give the impression that it slows the service down within usable levels - but for me several minutes to load google is to all intents and purposes stopped, its unusable !! So why doesn't it just say that, wouldn't that be more honest IMHO.

I do think its unclear and I am certain it falls short of trade descriptions - from what I gather when in the box everyone is experiencing this at the same level  of slowness ... i.e. minutes to load google etc?

And then others are monitoring such as welshbarn and he says it still behaves badly wether in the box or not.
Cambrian, you have been carefully living and monitoring within FAP and you are finding this service to be reliable within those restrictions? I really enjoyed teh 4 days that it worked last week it was zipping along ..

As I have said before I would actually pay the extra for gold if I could be sure it would work..

Sky Logic shoudl be congratulated! they would seem to have made a FAP system that nobody even the providers seem to fully understand....


We selling more than 6 different systems, for home use, enterprises and military projects ! from different hardware suppliers and different satellite/bandwidth suppliers. All using FAB and more or less the same policy. If you don't want to read, don't want to understand, yes you will have a problem forever using satellite systems for communication, there are rules we all have to accept and they make sure we all get a fair part of the bandwidth (in this case very reliable top quality and very cheap !!!!!!!) Like I said, send it back (maybe you have faulthy hardware, ask them to test it) and use your old fashion perfect working landline !

We installed last week "only" 5 systems and they are all perfect up and running. Maybe because we inform our users 200% upfront about "-" and "+" of a system.

This is my last reply on this discussion, at least from my side (it becomes a bit waisted time). Btw. my name is Frits Blomsma.
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Reply #81 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:11pm  
That's enough !   Locked.
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