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Pages: 1

Poor performance HX50 BW @ Balad IRAQ

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Apr 15th, 2009 at 11:39am  
Currently have 2 subscriptions of 2048/256 on a HX50 provided by Bentley Walker.  Below is my Satellite Statistics Summary
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 88      Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 3306531/68742
Flags............... 0x00000000       NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 815/219
Stream Error Rate.......   2.04%      NonStream Error Rate.......  21.18%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 002:11:26:50       Aloha Starts................ 822
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0       Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000       Frames Received............. 38061933
Addresses Open............... 7       Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 007:E:11272       Miscellaneous Problems...... 124
Rate Code........  256k 4/5 (TC)      No Receive Outroute Lock.... 15
Inroute Group................ 1       No FLL Lock................. 434
Inroute...................... 8       No Network Timing Sync...... 10595
IQoS ID...................... 4300     Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 8/9 (16)


Ranging Reason: Ranging Done

Inroute Group Selection: Ranged at inroute rate selected by IQoS

Receive Status:  Receiver operational.  (RxCode 5)
Transmit Status: Transmitter ready. (TxCode 8)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

My Concern is the Stream&NonStream Error Rate.  I have submitted a ticket to BW and they made some changes to my profile (I do not know what changes were made.  Since changes were my service has improved.  But the Error Rate is still high in my honest experience.  Still receive many Turbo Page, Web acelleration page and Proxy DNS errors.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below are part of the system parameters

Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 7 East
Receive Frequency: 1127 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 13 Msps
Receive Polarization: Horizontal
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off
Transmit Radio Wattage: 2 Watt
-----------------------------------------------------------
TRANSMISSION INFO
Number of Successful Transmissions:  3313068
Number of Failed Transmissions: 68742
Number of Packets Submitted for Transmission: 2832744

RECEPTION INFO
Frames Received: 38174462
Frames with Errors: 0%
Bad Key Frames: 0%
Current Modcod: 8-PSK 8/9 (16)
------------------------------------------------------------
------------ Signal Quality --------------
MPEG2 Pkt Discard Config.... 0 (discard if BCH or CRC Error)
LDPC Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) ... 0x0002
BCH Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) .... 0x0   
BCH Bit ERR (in 8 LDPC) .... 0x00
Error MPEG2 Pkt Cnt ........ 0x00033234
Total MPEG2 Pkt Cnt......... 0xf00031f2
MPEG2 Pkt Error Rate ....... -7.8034E-04

Error BCH Frame Cnt ........ 0x000015cc
Total BCH Frame Cnt ........ 0x06a3d5ac
BCH Frame Error Rate ....... 5.0090E-05

Channel Psedo BER Err ...... 0x003fffff
LDPC Psedo BER Err ......... 0x00001fe0
Moving Average Over .........0x00000007 (Frames)

EsNo ....................... 11.761372
uwp SQF..................... 87
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Scaled SQF =   88

--- Scaled SQF Histogram Since Last Lock ---
Samples =  20052462.0
Average =        87.3
Std. Dev. =       NaN
SQF      Count
     59             5     0     0
     61             1     0     0
     63             3     0     0
     65             2     0     0
     67             3     0     0
     69             3     0     0
     71            65     0     0
     73           684     0     0
     75          1601     0     0
     77          2329     0     0
     79         16044     0     0
     81         27086     0     0
     83         61580     0     1
     85       1133297     6     6
     87      14813660    74    80
     89       3908360    19   100
     91         87753     0   100
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmiter - General Stats
--------- Allocated Inroute Message Statistics --------
Stream Messages ACK'd......... 3320231     Stream Messages NAK'd....... 68757
NonStream Messages ACK'd...... 815         NonStream Messages NAK'd.... 219

Aloha Starts.................. 822         Ranging Starts.............. 0
WakeUp Aloha Starts........... 0           DNCC Busy................... 0

Allocated Stream Bytes........ 768501781   Used Stream Bytes........... 647428208

------------- General Transmit Statistics -----------
Tx Superframes Count.......... 2835443     Tx Superframes Size......... 578135644

No Frame Information.......... 129         Not Sync'd to Network Timing 10701
No Receive Demod Lock......... 15          No FLL Lock................. 434
No Transmit Synth Lock........ 0           Miscellaneous Problems...... 124
-------------------------------------------------------
TPS History
---------------------------------------------------------

TPS IP          Last Conn Start Time      Last Conn Status      Connect Failures  Aborts Rcvd  50x Errors  Last Session Status Overall Status
192.168.5.7     WED APR 15 09:35:55 2009  Established           20(30%)           136(0%)      255(0%)     OK                  OK            
192.168.5.8     WED APR 15 09:19:02 2009  Down - Error          24(36%)           308(0%)      234(0%)     OK                  OK      
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Transmit Error Stats
--------------------------------
TxCode 0 ........... N/A    TxCode 1 ........... 0
TxCode 2 ........... 0      TxCode 3 ........... 0
TxCode 4 ........... N/A    TxCode 5 ........... 4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEP Error Stats
--------------------------------
PEP Code 0.......... 0      PEP Code 1.......... 0
PEP Code 2.......... 0      PEP Code 3.......... 879


Turbopage Error Stats
--------------------------------
TPC Code 504........ 1542   TPC Code 505........ 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- TPC Error Code Counts --------
[5030]: 663       
[5040]: 1545      
[5092]: 277       
[5130]: 28         
[5151]: 5         
[5152]: 213       
[5331]: 2         
[5332]: 185       
-- TPS Error Code Counts --------
[502]: 17         
[503]: 57         
[505]: 19         
[506]: 396         
-------------------------------------------------------

Okay,  I think thats enough info for now. 

Is my receive and transmit polarization set correctly?  I followed "Eric's" example on the forum for setting up the HX50 system.  Also I read the polarization should be set "Receive - Horizontal & Transmit - Vertical".  But when I called Bentley Walker the day after the system was set up and running with signal lock, they said Horizontal for both Receive&Transmit is correct.  Also, my initial signal strength was 92 and now it is constantly btwn 87-89.  My Ranging Stats is currently the low possible 256k 1/2 2/3 or 4/5.  I am allowed 256k thru 2048k. 

I am at a lost in achieving the optimal performance that the system can give me.  I am using PFsense with Dual WAN for "Round Robin" load balance and I have positive results with PFsense.  I am currently working on setting up an another device as a Proxy Engine "Cacheflow CA-626" using Cache OS.

Currently I am using two "private IP addresses" provided by Bentley Walker in the 10.xxx.xxx.xxx range for my two subcribtions.  Would I be better off using Public IP addresses to get away from "Double NAT"?

I am still currently working with Bentley Walker to improve performance.  I do like the system, service and support.  I really appreciate what they are doing for us in the IRAQ. 

Any assistance, suggestions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.  Ken
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Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 12:29pm  
You're right, that's over 2% transmission errors. Technically zero to 1% is considered "good", 2-4% "marginal", 5% "bad". By comparison, my modem has only counted 319 NACKs over the last 36.5 days. For me, that represents 0.0009%

High error percentages can be caused by many things; failing modem, degraded cable path, failing transmitter, dish mal-alignment, local interference. I see a good Rate Code, suggesting a healthy transmitter, but a less than optimum Current ModCod. If you check the Trajectory Table, it should indicate that your Es/No 11.76+ is sufficient to support 8-PSK 9/10  (17).

Those selected statistics suggest a possible POL alignment problem. Less than optimum POL alignment results in phase distortion affecting both TX and RX. But before jumping straight into that, I'm going to suggest perform loop resistivity testing on the cables, replacing as required. If you're running the coax through any kind of surge suppression device - don't. Then get with your NOC to optimize the POL angle. At the same time, ask the NOC if the spectrum analyzer suggests the possibility of local RFI. If these measures don't reduce the error rate, we'll move on to some of the other possible causes.

//greg//
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« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2009 at 4:22pm by N/A »  
 
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Reply #2 - Apr 15th, 2009 at 12:44pm  
I suggest the hub measures the receive quality of the TDMA bursts being received at the hub.  If bursts only this site are affected and the bursts are all marginal then it looks like low transmit power from the site (see Greg's comments above). 

If most bursts are normal at the hub but occasionally fail completely then I would consider a site lat/long location error or burst timing issue causing some other site's bursts to overlap - causing loss of a burst from both sites.  Needs hub attention in my opinion.

Best regards, Eric.
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Reply #3 - Apr 20th, 2009 at 4:52am  
I did test the cables and they test good.  I gave BW the link to the thread on satsig couple of days ago but no reply, will call them on Monday.  I made some minor evl and pol adjustments, which seems to also improve my system, especially signal strenght and redueced errors, But I am not very versed in reading HX50 menu items.  The modem has only been up and running a few hours, need more time to get better readings.  Let me know if you want to see additional info fm the modem
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Satellite Statistics Summary
------------------------------------
Network Time: MON APR 20 02:37:51 2009
------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 89      Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 45109/1274
Flags............... 0x00000000       NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 6/2
Stream Error Rate.......   2.75%      NonStream Error Rate.......  25.00%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 000:00:46:15       Aloha Starts................ 6
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0       Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000       Frames Received............. 471257
Addresses Open............... 7       Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 007:E:11272       Miscellaneous Problems...... 10
Rate Code........  256k 4/5 (TC)      No Receive Outroute Lock.... 20
Inroute Group................ 1       No FLL Lock................. 429
Inroute...................... 6       No Network Timing Sync...... 87
IQoS ID...................... 4300     Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 8/9 (16)


Ranging Reason: Ranging Done

Inroute Group Selection: Ranged at inroute rate selected by IQoS

Receive Status:  Receiver operational.  (RxCode 5)
Transmit Status: Transmitter ready. (TxCode 8)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Firmware Stats
--------------- Receiver & Demodulator Statistics --------------
State....................... Tracking (10)

Frequency (0.1 MHz)......... 11272       Symbol Rate (ksps).......... 13000
FEC Rate.................... 0           I/Q Inversion............... Inverted
Signal Quality.............. 88          Raw EsNo.................... 118
AGC......................... 5739        BER......................... 0
Carrier Lock................ 1           Viterbi Lock................ 1
RS Lock..................... 1           Left Tracking State......... 0
Frequency Offset............ 0           CRL Frequency............... 4294967285

--------------- FLL Statistics --------------
State....................... Locked (5)

Flags....................... 192         Current Sigma Setting....... 7943406
Interrupt Interval.......... 0           Unlock Count................ 0
Total Estimated Error....... -46         Estimated Error (ppb)....... -54

--------------- General Statistics --------------
Total UpTime................ 69230    

No Receive Lock............. 20          No FLL Lock................. 429
No Timing Lock.............. 87          No Synthesizer Lock......... 0
Early Frames................ 0           No Frame Information........ 12
Bad Buffers................. 0           Need ACP Test............... 0
Miscellaneous Problems...... 10          Current Frame Number........ 39959
Rain Fade Fallbacks......... 0           Rain Fade Backdown.......... 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
------------ Signal Quality --------------
MPEG2 Pkt Discard Config.... 0 (discard if BCH or CRC Error)
LDPC Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) ... 0x0002
BCH Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) .... 0x0   
BCH Bit ERR (in 8 LDPC) .... 0x00
Error MPEG2 Pkt Cnt ........ 0x00001c1c
Total MPEG2 Pkt Cnt......... 0x03cdd500
MPEG2 Pkt Error Rate ....... 1.1275E-04

Error BCH Frame Cnt ........ 0x00000022
Total BCH Frame Cnt ........ 0x001b15f9
BCH Frame Error Rate ....... 1.9154E-05

Channel Psedo BER Err ...... 0x003fffff
LDPC Psedo BER Err ......... 0x00000000
Moving Average Over .........0x00000007 (Frames)

EsNo ....................... 12.028715
uwp SQF..................... 88
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modcod Send Show
---------- Modcod Send Statistics ----------
Total stream MODCOD sent....... 4           Total Aloha MODCOD sent...... 3
Total successful MODCOD sent... 5           Total failed MODCOD sent..... 0
Successful stream MODCOD sent.. 4           Failed stream MODCOD sent.... 0
Successful Aloha MODCOD sent... 1           Failed Aloha MODCOD sent..... 0
Successful ACM Aloha sent...... 0           Failed ACM Aloha sent........ 0
ACM Aloha sent active.......... 0           ACM Aloha sent Inroute Idle.. 0
ACM Aloha sent Outroute Idle... 0           ACM Aloha sent Under Cap..... 0
Total ACM Aloha Retry.......... 0           Total Modcod Aloha Retry..... 0
MODCOD sent no confirm......... 0           Total Stream Modcod Repeat... 2
MODCOD mismatch (higher)....... 0           MODCOD mismatch (lower)...... 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Trajectory Table
ModCod .................. 8-PSK 9/10 (17)
Min Threshold (dB) ...... 25.0
Ingress Threshold (dB) .. 25.0
Egress Threshold (dB) ... 25.6

ModCod .................. 8-PSK 8/9 (16)
Min Threshold (dB) ...... 10.8
Ingress Threshold (dB) .. 10.8
Egress Threshold (dB) ... 11.4

ModCod .................. 8-PSK 5/6 (15)
Min Threshold (dB) ...... 9.5
Ingress Threshold (dB) .. 9.5
Egress Threshold (dB) ... 10.1

ModCod .................. 8-PSK 3/4 (14)
Min Threshold (dB) ...... 8.1
Ingress Threshold (dB) .. 8.1
Egress Threshold (dB) ... 8.7

ACM SINR Transition Threshold (dB) ... 0.6
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Requested Modcod ................ 16 (S2_8PSK_8_9)
Hub Perceived Modcod ............ 16 (S2_8PSK_8_9)
Current Esno ................... 118 (0.1db)

--------------------------|---------------------------------|-------------------
--------------
               Threshold |   < or = Request Modcod         |        > Request Modcode
     ModCod         Esno |  CCerr      PktErr      Total   |  CCerr      PktErr      Total
------------------- ------|---------- ---------- -----------|---------- ---------- -----------
  8  S2_QPSK_4_5       47 |         0          0    3227123 |         1          0        674
12  S2_8PSK_3_5       55 |         1          0       2016 |         0          0          0
13  S2_8PSK_2_3       67 |         0          0      63185 |         1          0         28
14  S2_8PSK_3_4       80 |         0          0    5691694 |         1          0        960
15  S2_8PSK_5_6       94 |         0          0   18646929 |         1          0       4410
16  S2_8PSK_8_9      107 |         0          0   34954002 |         1          0      43217
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
NOC-Sat Delay (AnE).......... 2531160   Remote-Sat Delay (BnD).... 2563212
Remote Distance To Sat (D)... 1020999   SFNP Interval............. 3600000
Ranging ID................... 16        Network Ranged On (L:H:F). 007:E:1127
NOC ID....................... 0      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rate......................... 256k Turbo Code 4/5    

Available.................... 1         Ranging Reason............. 9
Ranging Sessions Required.... 5         Minimum EsNo............... 70
Target EsNo.................. 73        SwitchUp EsNo.............. 68
Initial Power Setting........ 0         Final Power Setting........ 86
Initial Received EsNo........ 92        Final Received EsNo........ 76
Initial Received C/No........ 633       Final Received C/No........ 617
Outroute SQF................. 88        Outroute C/No.............. 831
Initial Timing Offset........ 1010      Final Timing Offset........ 469
Power Control Type........... PWM       Estimated Rate............. No
Coding Type.................. BCH       Inroute Group ID Ranged.... 1
Timestamp.................... APR 20 02:55:47 (GMT) 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


I have gotten exception logs if I click on "All Adv Stats" under Turbopage Menu.  Below is a portion of the Reset History and the log.  I can assume it is a bug in the firmware (5.8.0.48), previous version did not have this issue.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Reset History
----------------------
Entry Number 0:
----------------------
Time of Reset :      MON APR 20 01:50:53 2009 [GMT]
Asserted at :      
Reset Type :      Software Reset
Reset Reason :      Reset due to Unexpected VxWorks Exception

Cavalier register read test passed. ASIC board
Danube synthesizer is locked.
Modem initialized, siInit = 0
Current Build: 5.8.0.48
GM Time:    MON APR 20 01:23:00 2009
Network Time: MON APR 20 01:23:00 2009
Standard Exception Type
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

I know this is alot of info, Sorry if the info is not needed.  I will give this a rest for a few days and report back.  But I figure that if I can get this done correctly with the help of others, I can foward this info and assist other here in IRAQ on how to get the most out of the system without pulling additional hairs. 

I want to thank Erik Johnston and USN - Retired for the quick replies, How To's and all the answers to the other member's questions so I do not have ask them again.  Keep up the great work. 

Ken
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Reply #4 - Apr 20th, 2009 at 4:00pm  
The Modem has been up now for 15hrs.  Here is some additional info

Satellite Statistics Summary
------------------------------------
Network Time: MON APR 20 14:12:31 2009
------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 85      Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 387716/3824
Flags............... 0x00000000       NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 55/25
Stream Error Rate.......   0.98%      NonStream Error Rate.......  31.25%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 000:08:03:37       Aloha Starts................ 62
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0       Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000       Frames Received............. 3012446
Addresses Open............... 7       Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 007:E:11272       Miscellaneous Problems...... 462
Rate Code........  256k 4/5 (TC)      No Receive Outroute Lock.... 20
Inroute Group................ 1       No FLL Lock................. 440
Inroute...................... 2       No Network Timing Sync...... 732
IQoS ID...................... 4300     Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 8/9 (16)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Satellite Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 7 East
Receive Frequency: 1127 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 13 Msps
Receive Polarization: Horizontal
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal (Should this be Vertical???)
22KHz Tone: Off
Router Address: 192.168.12.100
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Diagnostics Code
0204-8030-7201-0288(Hourly)
0307-2030-7203-0721(Recent)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TPC Error Stats page

PEP Error Stats
--------------------------------
PEP Code 0.......... 0      PEP Code 1.......... 0
PEP Code 2.......... 0      PEP Code 3.......... 292

Turbopage Error Stats
--------------------------------
TPC Code 504........ 69     TPC Code 505........ 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
Per TPS History
TPS IP          Last Conn Start Time      Last Conn Status      Connect Failures  Aborts Rcvd  50x Errors  Last Session Status Overall Status
192.168.5.7     MON APR 20 12:16:29 2009  Down - Error          13(86%)           49(0%)       11(0%)      OK                  OK            
192.168.5.8     MON APR 20 14:11:48 2009  Established           13(81%)           9(0%)        22(0%)      OK                  OK   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
Trajectory Table
------------------------------------------------
| Inroute | Target    | Minimum   | Gen. Aloha |
| Rate    | Threshold | Threshold | Metric     |
------------------------------------------------
| 512 4/5 | 8.7 dB    | 7.7 dB    |  0         |
| 256 4/5 | 8.7 dB    | 7.7 dB    |  0         |
| 256 2/3 | 6.4 dB    | 5.4 dB    |  0         |
| 256 1/2 | 3.9 dB    | 2.9 dB    |  0         |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
CLP Stats
Close Loop Power Control Statistics
-------------------------------------------------------
Current Inroute Type ... 1           Sun Outage occurred ..... 0
Current SymRate ........ 256         Current FecRate ......... 4
Global update count .... 0           Update reset count ...... 70
ULFE bin size .......... 5           ULFE bin count .......... 57
Stream SINR feedback ... 90          Aloha SINR feedback ..... 0
Current PCE ............ -2.823997   Current STF ............. 6.357249
Current Bin ID ......... 12          Current Bin Value ....... 18.994104
Power Mode ............. 0           Current Power Setting ... 29
Tx power increments .... 600763      Tx power decrements ..... 68556
STF over upper limit ... 0           STF over lower limit .... 9763
Max power occurred ..... 20785    

Max PCE ................ 75.176003   Min PCE ................. -56.823997
Max STF ................ 26.042508   Min STF ................. -51.877680
Too Low Feedback ....... 4           Too High Feedback ....... 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

I believe my Transmit Polarization should be Vertical.  I will tonight power down the modem, Unhook my cables and change my configuration fm Receive-Horizontal/Transmit-Horizontal to Reveive-Horizontal/Transmit-Vertical.  Saw this on another recent post.  Thanks.
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Reply #5 - Apr 20th, 2009 at 7:38pm  
Polarisation
========
Assuming you are in the Middle East and using W3A satellite at 7 east.

Your transmit polarisation is a physical fact of the way you initially set the feed system and applied the polarisation adjustment.  In your case, you initially set the receive polarisation to horizontal (LNB at the top) and the transmit to vertical.  Your rx and tx are at 90 deg to each other since your OMT is constructed that way.  You then turned both polarisations approx 45 deg clockwise, to match the satellite, which appears tilted clockwise from your viewpoint.

What is says about polarisation in the modem software and config is of no consequence.    The Horiz/Horiz display is a bug in the setup.   The HX modem cannot affect the polarisation of your Hughes outdoor unit.  [This is not necessarily true for the long term future.  We have a combined LNB/BUC which can be  be remotely switched from cross-pol to co-pol operation]

Stats
====
Note that many of the stats are incremental, which means that the figures stay the same as the last time unless something new has added to them.  It may help, to see if a problem is still occurring, to zero the stats after recording them. Sometimes a burst of errors may occur immediately following a reboot of the modem or during a rain outage either at the hub or at your site.

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2009 at 10:05am by Admin1 »  
 
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Reply #6 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 5:12am  
Interesting. Your trajectory table suggests that it's the firmware that's restricting the shift to 8-PSK 9/10. My table reflects
ModCod .................. 8-PSK 9/10 (17)
Min Threshold (dB) ...... 11.4
Ingress Threshold (dB) .. 11.4
Egress Threshold (dB) ... 12.3
So for some reason, it appears that 9/10 rate is being made unavailable to you. But that has nothing to do with the transmission errors.

Please describe what you did to conclude that the cables "test good". The appropriate test is one of resistivity with a digital multimeter. Short of that, swap the TX and RX cables. Mark both ends of the TX cable so that you can tell it from the RX cable. Then unscrew all four coaxial connectors. Put the former LNB cable on the transmitter, and the former transmitter cable on the LNB. Then at the modem, put the TX cable on the Sat In, and the RX cable on the Sat Out. Be advised, this will necessarily recycle the modem and reset the error count to zero.

If cable health is in fact confirmed good, it would be interesting to see if a transmitter swap might make those transmission errors  go away. It did for me. Is there anybody in your vic that's got a spare transmitter? And have you eliminated the possibility of RF interference?

//greg//
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Reply #7 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 6:59am  
Eric,

I did follow your example in the forum for the HX50 setup.  I used the back of the dish for polarization, added 3.5 to 42.2 (got all the readings from satsig sat finder).  What I gave to BW after using satsig as follows:
(Sat Finder on SatSig gave me base on W3a on 7E)
Elevation:34.03
Azimuth:229.8 Mag North
Polarization:42.06
Lat-33.9417  Long-44.3913
Lat=33degs 56.5 mins North
Long=44degs 23.5 East
---------------------------------
Entered into VSAT Parameters
Long 44deg 23mins East
Lat 33deg 56mins North
(Maybe I should have rounded up and not down)
--------------------------------
With the VSAT Parameters entered the Antenna Pointing Values are:
Elevation:34.1
Magnetic Azimuth:230.1
Polarization:42.2
---------------------------------------------------
Regarding the Ackd/Nakd ratio -  I believe this has to be with Turbo Page (Web Accelerator).  After I call the HUB, Simon told me he will do a software update and profile change.  After that was finished, I told him I will report back to him on Tuesday.  I have looked at the modem - It has been up and running for 12+ hrs since the update from the HUB.  I have notice the (Main.bin changed fm 5.8.0.48 to 5.8.0.21) and they disabled my (TPC) Turbo Page (Web Accelerator).  Below is my Satellite Stat Summary

Satellite Statistics Summary

------------------------------------
Network Time: TUE APR 21 04:57:17 2009
------------------------------------

Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 83      Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 853635/1714
Flags............... 0x00000000       NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 15/2
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 000:12:25:16       Aloha Starts................ 16
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0       Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000       Frames Received............. 7871008
Addresses Open............... 7       Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 3/0
Carrier Info....... 007:E:11272       Miscellaneous Problems...... 74
Rate Code........  256k 4/5 (TC)      No Receive Outroute Lock.... 13
Inroute Group................ 1       No FLL Lock................. 431
Inroute...................... 4       No Network Timing Sync...... 2371
IQoS ID...................... 4300     Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 8/9 (16)

Here is the Turbopage stats
General

------------------------------------
Network Time: TUE APR 21 04:58:12 2009
------------------------------------
---------------------------
     TPC is shutdown      
---------------------------
Looking in All Stats under Turbopage verifies it is shutdown.  If I am incorrect on this I apoligize to BW's staff.

Under All Adv Stats (Note:  After the firmware downgrade - I do not get any exception error when I click on this menu item) I will copy what I believe to be important.
=========================== Diagnostic Statistics (Hourly History)======================
---------------------------------------------------------------
System Level Diagnostics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Monitoring interval                                           TUE APR 21 03:35:05 2009 - TUE APR 21 04:35:04 2009
Problem(s) Detected [* - Triggering Statistic(s)]             Uplink Queuing
Overall                                                       BAD
Transport                                                     BAD
PEP                                                           MARGINAL
TurboPage                                                     GOOD
DNS                                                           BAD
VSAT Internal                                                 GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
Transport Layer Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status                                                        BAD
Current SQF                              83                   GOOD
AIS STF Over Limit Error                 85(0.12%)            BAD
Inroute Q1 overflows                     351                  BAD *
Priority Q 1 high latency pkts           5340(3.16%)          GOOD
Priority Q 1 very high latency pkts      0(0.00%)             GOOD
Priority Q 2 high latency pkts           2471(11.66%)         BAD *
Priority Q 2 very high latency pkts      98(0.46%)            MARGINAL
Priority Q 3 high latency pkts           208(2.47%)           GOOD
Priority Q 3 very high latency pkts      0(0.00%)             GOOD
Priority Q 4 high latency pkts           0(0.00%)             GOOD
Priority Q 4 very high latency pkts      0(0.00%)             GOOD
----------------------------------------
PEP Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status                                                        MARGINAL
IPGW error detected                      NO                   GOOD
Backbone status                          UP                   GOOD
LLRTT (in msec) for bb 2                 1490                 MARGINAL
FAP in effect                            NO                   GOOD
Flow control in effect                   NO                   GOOD
Tx SACKs                                 3(0.00%)             GOOD
Rx SACKs                                 22(0.08%)            GOOD
RSTs received                            0                    GOOD
RSTs transmitted                         0                    GOOD
Zero window rcvd                         0(0%)                GOOD
Zero window txed                         914(0%)              GOOD
TCP messages retxed                      148(0.12%)           GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
DNS Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status                                                        BAD
Timedout DNS queries                     421(21%)             BAD
Invalid DNS queries                      0(0%)                GOOD
Requests dropped no RCBs                 17(0%)               GOOD
Invalid response rcvd                    0(0%)                GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
TurboPage Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
TurboPage is disabled

The above is the hourly stats.  The Minutes History looks good except the DNS acceleration.  (Timedout DNS queries  20(15%)  BAD *).  Overall I believe this is an improvement.  But I wonder what it would look like if they left the Turbo Page on?  If all the Streaming errors were cause by Turbo Page, I can understand and accept it.  But turning it off to get rid of the errors, while that is kind of lame, unless BW knows they have a proxy (caching) error on their end.  I hope they will not turn off the DNS proxy too (LOL).  I am learning the satellite systems and enjoying it.  As a network administrator (Cisco shop), it broadens my knowledge and I enjoy that. 

continued on next post
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Reply #8 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:00am  
Greg - I was told by Simon the 8-PSK 8/9 (16) 256k 4/5 (TC) was my limit.  I do not know how the higher rates would benefit (except faster speeds is my guess).  Below is the AIS Stats.
AIS Stats
Adaptive Inroute Selection (AIS) Statistics
-------------------------------------------------------
Current Rate................ 256 4/5       AIS Preferred Rate........... 256 4/5
AIS Highest Rate............ 256 4/5       AIS low Rate.............. 256 1/2
Total PC Ingress........... 98             Total Egress ................ 49
Total Aloha Ingress........ 0              Total Egress Due to GLB ..... 0
Last AIS Type ............. Egress         Number of Stream Runs ....... 809507

Reference Delta Power....... 81            Average Delta Power.......... 39
Current Power Adjustment.... 40            Delta Uplink Power........... 42
--------------------------------------
Trajectory Table
------------------------------------------------
| Inroute | Target    | Minimum   | Gen. Aloha |
| Rate    | Threshold | Threshold | Metric     |
------------------------------------------------
| 512 4/5 | 8.7 dB    | 7.7 dB    |  0         |
| 256 4/5 | 8.7 dB    | 7.7 dB    |  0         |
| 256 2/3 | 6.4 dB    | 5.4 dB    |  0         |
| 256 1/2 | 3.9 dB    | 2.9 dB    |  0         |
-------------------------------------
CLP Status
CLPC Outroute SINR Average:
Short Term Avg. .......... 821.9484140
Mid Term Avg.   .......... 822.0886592
Long Term Avg.   ......... 853.0508590
Current Outroute CN ...... 822
Averaged Outroute ranged CNo ... 831

CLPC Filter Coefficient:
Short Term Filter Coef ... 0.9000000
Mid Term Filter Coef   ... 0.9633333
Long Term Filter Coef  ... 0.9997796
PCE Filter Coef        ... 0.9999875

Last Converge Day ........ 0    Last Coverge Hour ........ 960124

CLPC Loop Update:
CLPC Update Count .................... 1
Power Contrl Error ................... -3.823997
System Tracking Filter ............... 3.027488

SINR Feedback - Stream ............... 87    SINR Feedback - Aloha ............ 0
---------------------------------------------
CLP Stats
Close Loop Power Control Statistics
-------------------------------------------------------
Current Inroute Type ... 1           Sun Outage occurred ..... 0
Current SymRate ........ 256         Current FecRate ......... 4
Global update count .... 0           Update reset count ...... 27
ULFE bin size .......... 5           ULFE bin count .......... 57
Stream SINR feedback ... 88          Aloha SINR feedback ..... 0
Current PCE ............ -0.823997   Current STF ............. 13.395422
Current Bin ID ......... 12          Current Bin Value ....... 19.638037
Power Mode ............. 0           Current Power Setting ... 9
Tx power increments .... 1017223     Tx power decrements ..... 14177
STF over upper limit ... 0           STF over lower limit .... 1929
Max power occurred ..... 7412      

Max PCE ................ 69.176003   Min PCE ................. -56.823997
Max STF ................ 25.135813   Min STF ................. -51.667680
Too Low Feedback ....... 0           Too High Feedback ....... 0

256 1/2 : Max EsNo  96 @ Power Setting 41, Min EsNo  28 @ Power Setting 128
256 4/5 : Max EsNo 105 @ Power Setting 46, Min EsNo  18 @ Power Setting 109

Mean Power Contrl Err (clear sky) ... 0.000000    Variance Power Contrl Err (clear sky) ... 0.000000
Mean Power Contrl Err (rain) ........ -0.058198    Variance Power Contrl Err (rain) ........ 21.526256
-------------------------------------------

I use a cable test kit (like the ones that have mulitple types of cables to test) do not know the name of it, but it tests serial. RS232, RG6, RG11 and so on.  the tester that a TCF (HUB) has for testing cables for wiring their circuits (phone switches, SATCOMS, Radio shots).  Like I said I am in IRAQ as a network administrator and down the hall is SATCOMS, Wideband, Promedia guys that work on the WAN portion of the network for comms).  And yea they look at me strange when I ask them about my satellite.

I will do as you suggested and swap out the cable btwn TX and RX on Wendsday night.  I am not aware of anyone having a spare, but when I call BW this evening, I will ask them.  When you say RF interference, I am not sure.  There are a couple other satellites around mine but not close and they are not pointing to the same bird and there is no WiFi around out area.  I have clear shot over the buildings.

I will continue to monitor and give update on the forum.  Thanks again.  Ken
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Reply #9 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 7:05am  
Here is a bit more info.

SYSTEM STATUS
Signal Strength 83

TCP Acceleration Status Operational
Diagnostics Code 0204-8000-0802-0480

SYSTEM INFO

Software Configuration
NAT: Disabled
DHCP: Enabled on Lan1
Firewall: Disabled (from NOC)
Turbo Page: Disabled
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Reply #10 - Apr 21st, 2009 at 1:23pm  
I was only looking at the disparity between your Es/No and the ModCod as a troubleshooting indicator. Now that I know 8PSK 9/10 (17) isn't available to you, the disparity is meaningless from a troubleshooting perspective. Technically, it's the NOC that benefits more from  9/10 coding than do the network subscribers. That 9/10 rate is not available may be related to the symbol rate. But it's not worth pursuing at this time.

The transmission error rate is independent of TurboPage, they'll continue to accumulate whether it's enabled or disabled. But transmission errors DO negatively impact TurboPage performance. So I don't see where disabling it helps anything. That diagnostics code 0204-8000-0802-0480 by the way, is only a general indicator of Uplink Queuing and DNS Acceleration issues that had already been made evident by the previously posted stats.

Note everywhere that the word BAD appears in the statistical history. Every BAD/Marginal category is either directly or indirectly related to transmission errors. So I'm still not convinced that your inroute is healthy. And I may have missed it, but did you post the results of transmitter isolation testing with your NOC? Or hasn't that been done yet? And again, RFI can negatively impact selected inroutes as well. But unless you have your own RF analyzer, the NOC has physically look at your carrier to tell whether or not there are indications of RFI.

I should have been more clear with the resistivity testing thing. High DC loop resistance (combined resistance of the center conductor and shield) on the IFL cable may exhibit itself as poor or intermittent transmit and receive performance in the satellite system. You may have a damage cable segment, or you may have been sold a batch of bad cable from the git-go, or maybe it's nothing more than one poorly installed F-connector. Since yours appears to be a transmit problem, this is why I suggested swapping your TX and RX cables. But that's for elimination purposes only. Cuz if the TX cable is in fact bad, you've simply moved the problem to the receive side.

For more definitive results, Hughes has a max cable resistance spec for each type TRIA they field. That means coaxial cable resistance - strictly between the modem and the dish. I'm thinking your tester is intended primarily for use on the client side. Depending upon the TRIA, the max allowable is anywhere between 3.5 and 6.0 ohms. I prefer to err on the side of caution, and use the 3.5 ohm standard.

I start by removing both cables from the back of the modem, and connecting them together with a barrel connector. I then go to the dish and remove both cables there as well. I set the DMM to the low resistance selection available. On some that's simply AUTO. I then put one probe on the center conductor and one probe on the connector housing. The reading should indicate infinity. Assuming it does, then check continuity between both center conductors. It should be <3.5 ohms. Finally, check continuity between both connector housings. It too should be <3.5 ohms. This tests the whole loop, and most of the time is the end of the test. My 200' loop for example, presents <1.6 ohms. If you read less than infinity - or more than 3.5 ohms - it gets more complicated. Now you have to remove the barrel connector and test each cable segment independently. To do that, you short the center conductor and connector housing at one end, and perform your measurements on the other end. Assuming you use a cable grounding block, you can pursue this right down to the last cable segment if you want.

And for clarification, the loop resistance standard applies on an end-to-end basis. What you measure on each individual segment should only be considered as PART of the 3.5 max ohms permitted. What you're looking for is/are the bad segment(s).

//greg//
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Reply #11 - Apr 22nd, 2009 at 9:59pm  
Greg,

I have not the the resistivity Loop test yet, but did swap out the TX&RX on the modem and dish, reset to zero.  I did some minor tweaking of both pol & elevation to see if I can get a better signal.  I am letting this go for the night and report the results.  What info from the modem do you me to post?  Also I have not ask the HUB for the transmitter isolation testing, but I will tomorrow and post that.  As soon as I get a multimeter, I will do the test and post that info.  Below are some info after uptime of 4.5hrs but I did do a reset 30mins ago.

AIS Stats
Adaptive Inroute Selection (AIS) Statistics
-------------------------------------------------------
Current Rate................ 256 4/5       AIS Preferred Rate........... 256 4/5
AIS Highest Rate............ 256 4/5       AIS low Rate.............. 256 1/2
Total PC Ingress........... 326            Total Egress ................ 161
Total Aloha Ingress........ 0              Total Egress Due to GLB ..... 0
Last AIS Type ............. Egress         Number of Stream Runs ....... 1006147

Reference Delta Power....... 81            Average Delta Power.......... 37
Current Power Adjustment.... 36            Delta Uplink Power........... 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
CLP Status
CLPC Outroute SINR Average:
Short Term Avg. .......... 821.0144387
Mid Term Avg.   .......... 822.1876925
Long Term Avg.   ......... 853.0508590
Current Outroute CN ...... 821
Averaged Outroute ranged CNo ... 831

CLPC Filter Coefficient:
Short Term Filter Coef ... 0.9000000
Mid Term Filter Coef   ... 0.9633333
Long Term Filter Coef  ... 0.9997796
PCE Filter Coef        ... 0.9999875

Last Converge Day ........ 0    Last Coverge Hour ........ 1280092

CLPC Loop Update:
CLPC Update Count .................... 1
Power Contrl Error ................... -3.823997
System Tracking Filter ............... 2.461748

SINR Feedback - Stream ............... 88    SINR Feedback - Aloha ............ 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
CLP Stats
Close Loop Power Control Statistics
-------------------------------------------------------
Current Inroute Type ... 1           Sun Outage occurred ..... 0
Current SymRate ........ 256         Current FecRate ......... 4
Global update count .... 0           Update reset count ...... 68
ULFE bin size .......... 5           ULFE bin count .......... 57
Stream SINR feedback ... 87          Aloha SINR feedback ..... 0
Current PCE ............ -2.823997   Current STF ............. 4.350141
Current Bin ID ......... 12          Current Bin Value ....... 18.501309
Power Mode ............. 0           Current Power Setting ... 38
Tx power increments .... 1225368     Tx power decrements ..... 45445
STF over upper limit ... 0           STF over lower limit .... 7289
Max power occurred ..... 24349    

Max PCE ................ 76.176003   Min PCE ................. -56.823997
Max STF ................ 25.189167   Min STF ................. -51.807680
Too Low Feedback ....... 2           Too High Feedback ....... 0

256 1/2 : Max EsNo  96 @ Power Setting 43, Min EsNo  27 @ Power Setting 125
256 2/3 : Max EsNo  93 @ Power Setting 1, Min EsNo  84 @ Power Setting 8
256 4/5 : Max EsNo 102 @ Power Setting 29, Min EsNo  11 @ Power Setting 108

Mean Power Contrl Err (clear sky) ... 0.000000    Variance Power Contrl Err (clear sky) ... 0.000000
Mean Power Contrl Err (rain) ........ -0.076580    Variance Power Contrl Err (rain) ........ 21.024999
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Transmitter General Stats
General Stats

------------------------------------
Network Time: WED APR 22 20:30:04 2009
------------------------------------

--------- Allocated Inroute Message Statistics --------
Stream Messages ACK'd......... 54331       Stream Messages NAK'd....... 127
NonStream Messages ACK'd...... 2           NonStream Messages NAK'd.... 2

Aloha Starts.................. 3           Ranging Starts.............. 0
WakeUp Aloha Starts........... 0           DNCC Busy................... 0

Allocated Stream Bytes........ 11946648    Used Stream Bytes........... 11033824

------------- General Transmit Statistics -----------
Tx Superframes Count.......... 58322       Tx Superframes Size......... 10290452

No Frame Information.......... 2           Not Sync'd to Network Timing 98
No Receive Demod Lock......... 0           No FLL Lock................. 0
No Transmit Synth Lock........ 0           Miscellaneous Problems...... 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
------------ Signal Quality --------------
LDPC Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) ... 0x047e
BCH Bit ERR (in 1 LDPC) .... 0x0   
BCH Bit ERR (in 8 LDPC) .... 0x00
Error Pkt Cnt .............. 0x000009b4
Total Pkt Cnt .............. 0x03d5fb8c
Per ........................ 3.8598E-05

Error BCH Frames ........... 0x00000048
Total BCH Frame ............ 0x001c5712
Error Ratio ................ 3.8766E-05

Channel Psedo BER Err ...... 0x003fffff
LDPC Psedo BER Err ......... 0x00000060
Moving Average Over .........0x00000007 (Frames)

EsNo ....................... 11.045849
uwp SQF..................... 82
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Freq Stats

Frequency offset and Frequency Drift from the position when just locked
--- Histogram Since Last Lock ---
       Nominal FreqOffset:    -3550 KHz
Initial Carrier FreqOffset:      -32 KHz
Current Carrier FreqOffset:      -18 KHz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Transmit Status
     
Transmitter ready. (TxCode 8)
Number of Successful Transmissions 59577
Number of Failed Transmissions 132
Number of Packets Submitted for Transmission 63514

I will send another update tomorrow.  Thanks again ken.
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Posts: 2108
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2009 at 10:59am  
Here is some information intended to help anyone with a Prodelin dish with a mode matched feed (Feed has "505" marking on the top of the horn throat) and a giant circular polarisation scale behind the dish.

On the throat of the horn is a "505" marking.  You must always have the 505 directly away from the feed arm and the fat lump, underneath, towards the feed arm.

You may adjust the polarisation to any required angle (though full 360 deg and for both Horizontal and Vertical) using the scale behind the dish.

...
These new design Prodelin dishes give superior cross-pol performance to all other single reflector antennas*, but only if you follow these assembly instructions above.

Best regards, Eric.

* except for ERA diamond antennas which use the same mode matched feed.
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