Problems with SSL over tooway

Hello,

I have only had tooway for a few weeks and on the whole I am quite impressed with it. Sure it takes a while to get used to the latency when making connections but speed wise it is great; Speedtest.net is giving me 5.5Mbps down, 1.5Mbps up and 700ms ping comapred to my 900kbps ADSL. Realworld download speeds have been as high as 20Mbps

Anyway, everything is good but I am noticing more and more issues when connecting to SSL sites. I have been trying to order a printbook from Apple for 3 days now and am getting time outs and dropped connections - am also getting time outs with facebook, ebay, twitter, SMTP etc. They can't all be down!

I have raised a case with my ISP (Bentley Walker) for investigation but wondered if anyone else has had issues with SSL connections? Normal HTTP connections seem fine so I am thinking its not an FAP issue (I have asked BW to confirm my usage stats too).

Anyway, its becoming a real problem as most of my business transactions are over SSL and thus Tooway may not be giving me what I anticipated.

I'm not using it for VPN or games etc per the advertised restrictions in the FAQs but so far have seen no reference in the T&Cs to there being issues with SSL.

RFC please.

Simon

Hi, 20Mb/s for sustained periods or just blips? What is the basic advertised speed of your system? As I previously mentioned, my speed never approaches the advertised 6 Mb/s. Which speed test is best for a satellite system, anyone? Thanks...

Speedtest results;
1st 30Kbytes took 9 mS. So download speed is approx = 3333 kBytes/sec = 26667 kbits/sec

2nd 30Kbytes took 12 mS. So download speed is approx = 2500 kBytes/sec = 20000 kbits/sec

3rd 30Kbytes took 6 mS. So download speed is approx = 5000 kBytes/sec = 40000 kbits/sec

4th 30Kbytes took 6 mS. So download speed is approx = 5000 kBytes/sec = 40000 kbits/sec

Overall average download speed is approx = 3636 kBytes/sec = 29088 kbits/sec

Am quite happy with the speed to be honest - but the inability to make reliable SSL connections is really worrying. Today I have my Mac Pro connected directly to the modem to avoid any Router & Switch issues, and have reset the MAc PRo NIC to Auto/Auto/1500MTU as it was fixed at 1000/Full/9000Jumbo Frames before but the problem persists. Now seeing SSL errors in Console logs for Twitter, iCal Sync to Google Apps etc. Tried MSN messenger today and that won't log in (presumably due to SSL errors but not sure if there are logs to check).

Quote:


Hiya,

How's your SSL problem?

I have Tooway now (10Mbps/2Mbps/13GB service).

I don't seem to be having as much trouble with SSL as you but I'm seeing some 'funnies' at times.  I'm going to do some more investigation/testing then speak to my provider.

Cheers Ian

I have not seen any SSL problems, no abnormal delays.

There have just been a few problems with sites like MoneyBookers which detect that the connection passes through a satellite proxy and refuse the secure aspects of their service for reasons only they know, but that is not a problem with the SSL itself.

Regards,  John

Quote:


Ian,
Yes, that's the version I've got. They told me when the update was ready and I just had to do an ipconfig /release /renew. Only thing is I switch my modem off overnight and from what they said I could miss an update that way. Seems a bit wasteful to leave it on all the time when it's quite watty. Not to mention the MTBF figure, but perhaps it's better for the TRIA to leave it on all the time.
Regards, Colin

Quote:


Ian, that's the post-upgrade version or I would have made it clear that yours was out of date. I just wonder how often upgrades might happen, presumably anytime, and whether it's going to be easy to catch up if you miss one. Have we got to keep watching for them? I'm about to go away for 10 days. I'm not going to leave  the system on all that time if only because it doesn't seem sensible to do so. Regards, Colin

Simon,

Having spoken to you earlier I have to firstly say I'm relieved to find I'm not the only one!!

Heres a break down of my issues that have been ongoing since the day the systems were installed in April.

We have a Tooway 10 Plus Business Package installed at our warehouse facility in County Durham, and a Tooway 10 DOmestic System installed in our home office location 5 Miles down the road.

Both Systems are experiencing  VERY Slow or non existent connections to Secure Websites. We can't access our online Banking, any of our own Shopping Carts Admin panels, Twitter, MSN Messenger and have intermittent issues using our Exchange Email.

This is having a direct impact on our business, and we have been forced to have to continue using our BT Broadband system as a backup despite taking on the Tooway as a direct replacement for the BT Setup.

I have tested our internal infrastructure by systematically taking our LAN to pieces and re testing the connection just to be absolutely sure it wasn't an issue at our end, I've tried new routers and even had a IT Consultant in to check our setup, all at a great inconvenience to my Colleagues who were unable to fulfil their functions while this was going on.

Finally I have plugged the modem directly into both a PC and a Mac and after all this still get the same results.

We seem to have gone through the same support channels as you, with several tickets going into Bentley Walker who seemed to be looking into it. But there has been no progress in finding a solution. The last response I had from the Support Ticketing System was:

"There are no restrictions placed specifically on SSL traffic. However, as the traffic is encrypted, the network cannot compress the data as it would with non-encrypted data, and thus there is no possibility of speeding up the data transfer on SSL connections.
Do you have any further questions regarding the service?"

I don't know about anyone else but the above reads to me like theres nothing they can do to fix this issue?

We took steps early on to make it Clear to Bentley Walker that we felt this system was not fit for purpose (How can something being advertised and sold as a Internet Service only give access to half the internet?), and following this response from the support system requested that the system be removed and a full refund given for all moneys paid to date.

Since then we have been dealing directly with the Bentley Walker Management and updates have been coming through daily, however there seems to be a myriad of tests they want to run with no real resolution on the horizon.

We agreed to give Bentley Walker 2 Weeks to resolve the issues, which ended today. They now want to run yet more tests.  

It strikes me that the whole Tooway system may have serious underlying issues that are going to render it useless as a "Internet Service" and that no one really knows how to fix it. I my mind it should never have been released given the potential for this to happen.

As we stand at the moment I really just want this system out , as its caused nothing but problems and business downtime.

I would be interested to hear from anyone else suffering similar issues to us, either on this forum or directly.

I'll keep this thread updated with our progress, whichever route we decide to take.

Cheers,

I am aware that my response is not really helpful in solving your existing Tooway KA-SAT problem but if you swap to an Avanti-Hylas-hughes system you can be sure you are connected to a 100% open network with no restrictions. The gateway to internet is provided by Telehouse in London and you also get a UK IP address.

The blame shouldn't be with BW or any other reseller/provider !! they all depend on Skylogic, we have done hundreds of tests in the past and most of the time no result, our list of tickets is/was very long, it can be a long time before your problem is solved.

"Dear Frits, I have been using a Tooway KA system, installed by you, for he last 2.5 years, and I have not been very impressed as it keeps dropping the connection even though I am normally well below my usage limits (barely get to 20% at any one time) - it has already dropped it about 4 times today while I have been working with VPN open to my company intranet - really annoying."

Above is a copy of an email from a user we received today (the list is growing weekly with all different problems).

We still have network/connection issues with installs we did years ago, most of the users even "don't bother to complain anymore", this is not good for our (or any other reseller/installer) reputation* etc.

Avanti-Hylas-Hughes hardware, network performance and support may cost a bit more but in the end you get what you pay for as the results will prove.

*This was one of the main reasons why we finally chose to go for the new Avanti-Hylas-1 service and Hughes hardware.

ps. Dear bunoire14, We are happy to install a test setup with a Hylas system at your office on a "No Cure - No pay" basis, if tests are sucessful you just pay the travel costs of our engineer based in London; you can report the results on this board.

As for moving to Huges etc. Nice idea but its a significant increase in costs. Whilst I agree one gets what one pays for - we are paying for an Internet connection with Tooway (all be it FAP limited) and that should include the ability to use the basic Internet protocols like HTTP and HTTPS, not just HTTP only. At the moment we are NOT getting what we pay for.

Eric,

The lease time for DHCP shouldn't be so short that its having to renew mid connection when I browse to a site. Nornmally I would expect it to be in the order of hours or days. I see no reason why it would change sooner - since its effectively an 'always on' service. I'll have to check the Wireshark logs to see if there is any DHCP traffic during the SSL connection. Long shot but I do appreciate everyones ideas and help.

All of the test you describe have been tried - all be it the Mac equilavents - I don't run Windows at home apart from an occasional Virtual Machine (and that suffers the same too).

No proxy, direct connection to the modem with two different machines (one rebuilt fresh with Snow Leopard and then Lion) and the problem persists = thus its nothing to do with my config or LAN equipment.

We have been working hard with Skylogic and so far the good News is that the SSL issue seems to be fixed , essentially looked as though there was a random  DNS mismatch but its looking much better now =))

Bentley Walker  

Thank you for the kind comments Simon, our efforts are ongoing with regard to this issue and the anomalies experienced with Itunes/Twitter applications and we will keep you posted.

Regards,

James - Bentley Walker.

It might be worth trying to find (or make) a friendly and cooperative SSL site, where the problem can be reproduced reliably, and then studying the log files of that web site server to see what urls are, or are not, actually being requested when a test is made.

This satsig site does not use SSL, but I do see 404 errors due to intermediate proxy servers not creating the correct full url request, particularly when the original url (embedded in the html web page or javascript) is not an absolute complete url but short relative one.

Does anyone have a server with SSL and is also willing to co-operate with tests via Tooway ?

Best regards, Eric

Good news - the SSL issues seem to be fixed properly now. I have used the system for about 3-4 weeks since the fix and hardly ever get SSL issues now.

It took them 4+ months to fix but we got there in the end.