Avanti or Tooway

Thanks but I am not too sure how your advert helps me make a decision, there seems to be a distinct lack of useful information, just a sales pitch.

Good Morning

I've sent you an email detailing advantages/disadvantages for both systems.

Thanks

Dave.

Broadband-Algarve wrote
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With the FAP systems of Tooway and Hylas one is not necessarily better than the other they just use different ways to control bandwidth usage.

Both ways of monitoring bandwidth usage have positive and negative points.

The Tooway FAP systems is NOT a disadvantage at all. It monitors the user at several levels to prevent him using his monthly volume within 1 day, week etc. This can be a big advantage for users who don't regularly monitor their own usage on-line.

The Hylas FAP system works on a different level, a user is free to use his monthly volume any time he wishes but ................. in this case a user has to be very careful and must monitor his system on a regular basis. It is very easy to consume the whole bandwidth volume in one day if you are not careful (download 4 films and spend a few hours on Youtube).


Tooway bandwidth usage controll (FAP).


Avanti Hylas online usage information and a warning via email when 80% of your monthly bandwidth volume has been used.

The main difference between the products are :

1) Initial costs.
2) Level of support.
3) An UK IP at any location within the Hylas-1 footprint outside the UK.

In our experience the Avanti-Hylas network is much more stable.

Finally, both systems offer the user an "unlimited*" usage. Tooway users can buy Tokens to top-up bandwidth volume and Avanti-Hylas provides an "unlimited*" service. The only difference is the payment, Tooway you pay upfront and Avanti-Hylas after the calendar month for extra bandwidth.

The only limit is your bank account !

Finally, you get what you pay for !!

*The word 'unlimited' indicates that the quantity (MBytes or GBytes) of your traffic (uploads and downloads) is not artificially limited by a tariff based, pre-determined traffic allowance per unit time period.  Sometimes also referred to as a 'FAP free service'. A truly unlimited service provides the customer with the specified uplink and downlink bit rates, available for continuous transmissions, uninterrupted 24/7 useage.

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Generally, no.

Very cheap domestic tariffs are based on shared useage of the satellite capacity where up to several thousand users share what is available.  A FAP makes sure that each user gets what they pay for, according to their tariff.

If someone wants 'without restriction' then they need to buy a dedicated service, which might cost $3000 - $9000 per month per MHz.
 
Best regards, Eric

Maybe explain that they need to keep their average bit rates below the threshold for each sliding time window: 667 kbit/s in any hour, 333 kbit/s in any 4 hours, 92 kbit/s in any day, 33 kbit/s in any week and 19.8 kbit/s in any 4 weeks.

Obviously these numbers need to be adjusted according to the tariff. Also I am not sure that Tooway are actually applying all of the limits in the KA-SAT network. Ask, they may have just the 1 hour and 28 days limits activated, I am not sure.

Whatever, do encourage them to familiarise themselves with the traffic monitor bar graph display like that above.

Broadband-Algarve wrote
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If you inform users "very clear upfront" you should never have any problems, they are very simple to explain.

Both systems offer the user extra bandwidth if needed, you pay Tooway upfront and Avanti-Hylas afterwards.

*Tooway goes back to zero after a 30 days window, zero day depends on your activation date and is not fixed to the first day of the month.

We have diagrams galore but even after explaining numerous times people still dont get the Tooway FAP.  I had a customer who has been on Tooway for 18 months ask me the other day if any usage they have leftover from a previous month is pulled forward as they wanted to download some films from iTunes and were pretty much instantly FAP'd on their Tooway KU system.

People just simply dont understand it.

The simplest option is you have a certain limit each month and if you use it all before the end of the month then you cant get online.  People seem to get this concept pretty immediately.

QUOTE: Maybe explain that they need to keep their average bit rates below the threshold for each sliding time window: 667 kbit/s in any hour, 333 kbit/s in any 4 hours, 92 kbit/s in any day, 33 kbit/s in any week and 19.8 kbit/s in any 4 weeks.

With respect, this isn't necessarily the way people think. Sometimes I want to download a program update which is hundreds of megs and then something else comes up, also big. But these might be the only large downloads that I've done for two weeks. It may have improved now, but in the past I have suspected that the fap clamps down halfway through.

Another subject: how much Tooway hardware will be usable for a switch to Hylas? Surely at least the dish?

You would need to swap out everything except the mounting pole unfortunately.

Significantly elliptical antennas
Significantly elliptical dishes produce a beam that is narrower in one direction and wider in the other. In the direction along the wider diameter the sidelobes are lower.  Provided you align the dish so that the wider diameter is along the geostationary orbit line you will reduce the interference you cause into the adjacent satellites and reduce the interference you receive from the adjacent satellites.

This image shows the rear view of an elliptical dish aimed at a Hughes satellite to the south west from the USA.  The transmit-receive module has it polarisation fixed relative to the dish and the whole dish is adjusted in polarisation using a scale at the rear.  The wide diameter of the dish is simultaneously kept in line along the orbit, thus reducing interference. Other satellites are to the upper left or lower right.

Use of reflectors not as intended.
Front fed antennas, whether symmetric or offset, use a parabolic shape and have a fixed focal point.  You can put any kind of radiator feed at the focal point. A waveguide aperture or conical horn is normal at microwave frequencies but a dipole or yagi antenna is possible for VHF/UHF type frequencies and very large dishes.  Provided the dish surface has an accurate shape and smooth metal surface it will work at all frequencies. The feed should direct most of its energy at the dish.  If you want to experiment with different feeds and frequencies note the following:  You don't know the location of the phase centre of the feed so you will have to experiment with different distances to get it into focus.  Scalar feeds with a waveguide surrounded by rings has a phase centre just at the aperture.  Conical horns have a phase centre that could be anywhere from the throat to the aperture, depending on the flare angle and the frequency.  The surface quality of the dish is important, as is the overall shape.  Wire mesh will suffice at low frequencies; solid metal is needed at higher frequencies. In the case of 'fibreglass/plastic' antennas the reflecting metal is not known.  Some older such 'plastic' antennas has a hidden mesh that was only good for C band.  Surface accuracy overall should be 1/10 wavelength or better.  This is quite difficult to achieve and many installed dishes are so badly distored that they lose perhaps 3 dB of gain - which is not noticed in many cases as it still permits full quality operation in clear sky and the customer does not realise that they suffer longer than average rain outages.! Read about the fishing line test: https://www.satsig.net/pointing/rear-side-struts.htm
wxw
Best regards. Eric.

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We have tested Hylas Ka band system on different PVC/Plastic dishes original provided with Tooway (Channel Master, Prodelin, Visiosat) Ku systems, it just does not work.

Beside this, in case you have problems, performance issues etc. when using parts not provided with an original kit, every provider will advise you FIRST to change it all to the way it should be before they can or will support you.

In this case, trying to save a few $$ on a dish does not make much sense (you get a new dish anyway), it's better to sell the old kit as a complete kit.

Dear Mr. Fendweller, please keep us up-to-date.

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I certainly don't understand it. Can anyone simplify it for me??

In C.- Europe (RS, HU, BG, SK)  and N.- Iraq we maintain Tooway. We have ended all KU Hughes connections and Hylas-1 does not offer coverage in all Countries.
Our support had to respond to only 2 tickets in this year, mainly W7 NIC setting issues. (52 VSAT's)
Only in RS we have experience with Avanti (Hylas-1 -so Hughes platform-) but we have as many problems as with W2A KU in 'the old' days. Mainly throttle issues.
We are very happy with Tooway, however there is no VAR or Country related policy with Skylogic, as allmost Tesco and an army of hardware peddlers sell Tooway VSAT's.
The pricing of Hughes hardware has allways been, and is still is beyond any proportion compared to prices one pay to distributors directly.
Furthermore: the ultimate simplicity of setting up and commissioning a Tooway VSAT is extreme uncomplicated, except on 'edges' of beams sometimes, but with simple 'tricks' 99,9 % of all installs are finished within 45 minutes.

Briefly: working with Tooway is just fun for the field-'boyzz'.