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Unlimited ?

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creusetec
Ex Member


Dec 20th, 2011 at 6:32pm  
Where it would seem all of the UK suppliers are quoting monthly allowances and FUP FAP restrictions , many european companies are offering "unlimited"  volume flatrate services with no FAP.
I have read the small print in the T&Cs of some of these companies which would suggest that it is a truly unlimited service.
I would therefore  ask if  one had the choice , why should  a client choose a 10/4 25 gb/month subscription at  € 99.99 over a 10/4 unlimited package at € 49 / month?  Guess I and many clients are missing the catch !
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Eric Johnston
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Reply #1 - Dec 20th, 2011 at 7:18pm  
One of my rules for this website is that the word 'unlimited' is not permitted, without qualification, to describe a shared service.  Companies using the word 'unlimited' are liable to be banned and references to their web sites deleted.  

"Free-for-all and not limited by a fair access policy or fair useage policy" would is a better description of many services. Also, the bit rates offered should clearly be described as "Up to", so as not to mislead potential customers.

To qualify for 'unlimited' you need to provide to same constant bit rate all of the time, 24/7, like SCPC.


The c******t shared services, without FAP/FUP, may be severely limited by congestion caused by the other simultaneous users (e.g. 750 user sites, all sharing 15 Mbit/s).

Shared services, on minimum tariff, may only be able to provide an average of about 15 - 20 kbit/s per month average per site. This sounds very slow but, when a FAP/FUP is applied, in practice most customers will find this acceptable provided they are not greedy.  Peak speeds of 2 Mbit/s or more are possible and provided overall useage is moderate then no dissatisfaction occurs. Avoid uploading or downloading video, audio, large files etc. Paying more for a higher rated subscription or buying extra Mbytes, is the solution for those needing larger upload/download amounts.

Read more http://www.wildblue.com/legal/network-management-policy which refers to the Wildblue system in the US/Canada. This is a fairly clear explanation of how the ViaSat Surfbeam traffic management operates (similar to Tooway)  

Best regards, Eric.

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creusetec
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Reply #2 - Dec 21st, 2011 at 8:50am  
Thanks for your reply. That is much as I understood it , a lot  of the advertising here (France) is very misleading to the client .
I would guess that although the unlimited systems seem to be performing well at the moment , the more clients signed up  in the future the more the system will slow down , seems odd that for example http://www.sat2way.fr  do not offer a fap'd service any more .
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #3 - Dec 21st, 2011 at 9:46am  
Quote:
Thanks for your reply. That is much as I understood it , a lot  of the advertising here (France) is very misleading to the client .
I would guess that although the unlimited systems seem to be performing well at the moment , the more clients signed up  in the future the more the system will slow down , seems odd that for example http://www.sat2way.fr  do not offer a fap'd service any more .

Don't be fooled !!!!

Sat2way offers Tooway service, this service is provided by Eutelsat/Skylogic in Italy and it uses a FAP system (unless you pay xxxx,xx per month).

All Tooway resellers in europe are providing the same service from Skylogic.

But I think "FAP" and "UNLIMITED" is a bit misunderstood.

For end-users "unlimited" means, they can up and download as much as possible without a FAP, (in other words - the service is uninterrupted - ie: you won't be cut off - but you pay for anything above your subscription) for technicians it means something different (see note from Eric).

As long as you buy extra bandwidth besides your monthly subscription, yes you can call this a "form of unlimited", at least from end-user point of view.

*The word 'unlimited' indicates that the quantity (MBytes or GBytes) of your traffic (uploads and downloads) is not artificially limited by a tariff based, pre-determined traffic allowance per unit time period.  Sometimes also referred to as a 'FAP free service'. A truly unlimited service provides the customer with the specified uplink and downlink bit rates, available for continuous transmissions, uninterrupted 24/7 useage.

... If you want us to call you for more info click here for our free call back service.
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« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2011 at 4:54pm by N/A »  
 
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creusetec
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Reply #4 - Dec 21st, 2011 at 1:14pm  
The wording on the sat2way website  T+C'  states
(translated from french)

a cumulative traffic volume
one consecutive period, more than:
- M + Subscription: 3 h 24 GB or 30 GB for 1 month,
- XL + Subscription: 5 h 24 GB or 50 GB for 1 month.
The customer is informed that uses or downloads
illegal is prohibited

quote " As long as you buy extra bandwidth besides your monthly subscription, yes you can call this a "form of unlimited", at least from end-user point of view. " quote.

There is no option to buy extra volume ! so would you read this that a 35€ monthly sub limits you to 30GB / month ? therefore not really unlimited

when asked  sat2way if the unlimited option was actually unlimited the reply sent was

"As its name implies, means that there are unlimited no limit, subject to compliance with what is used to describe "a good man". And illegal use (illegal downloading of works subject to copyright) do not fall withinthis framework and may manifest in cases of abuse to cause restrictions in the confiions of sale."
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« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2011 at 2:44pm by N/A »  
 
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Eric Johnston
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Reply #5 - Dec 21st, 2011 at 2:17pm  
Go to this page and read more:
http://www.sat2way.fr/internet-satellite/conditions-generales/

My impression is that they offer the standard KASAT Tooway quota tariffs with 1 hr, 4 hr, 7 day and 28 day sliding time window traffic limits.

Plus a special offer for the first 5000 sites, where you have a FAP free service, valid till 28th Feb 2014.

I don't find their use of the word "illimité" acceptable, without the qualification that the service is shared and may be limited by congestion caused by others using the same satellite capacity.

Best regards, Eric.
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creusetec
Ex Member


Reply #6 - Dec 21st, 2011 at 2:37pm  
Sorry for the long drawn out replys to this question and answer session  but there are 4 sets of T+C's there.
They no longer offer the standard 4/6/16/25 GB offers and are activley trying to migrate clients to the 2 unlimited offers.

The relevent one is:

Conditions générales (Offres Tooway-M+ et Tooway-XL+) Tooway avec Kasat (A compter du 15/12/2011)
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creusetec
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Reply #7 - Dec 28th, 2011 at 6:28pm  
More info re unlimited

12/27/2011
Sat2Way set up a special safeguard "Net-gluttons" its unlimited offers
since December 15, 2011, Sat2Way has made ​​significant changes to its general terms and conditions concerning the use that is made its offers unlimited Internet access via satellite. Indeed, the new general conditions of Sat2Way dated 15/12/2011 concerning subscriptions and M + XL + and bring a change to Article 5.3 which introduces a concept of "Quality of Service (QoS) "and sets up rules to protect the provider of certain uses that it deems abusive, illegal or disturb the service. So Sat2Way considers that traffic volume accumulated over a consecutive period of more than 3 GB of 24 hours (or download a constant 33 KB / s) or 30 GB for 1 month for a subscription to the offer + M is an abuse of the use of the service. To supply XL +, the limit is 5 GB 50 GB or 24 hours a month. Beyond this use, the use of satellite Internet access to the subscriber may be considered excessive and likely to disrupt the service. The user will then be punished by a drastic reduction of its speed to 64 Kbps downstream and 16 Mb / s upload, and this, for 30 consecutive days. However, this penalty can be waived if the customer provides evidence that it is not abused and used his connection to make illegal downloads.

Although Sat2Way told not to apply these new rules, they are nevertheless a warning to large consumers who exaggerate in their use of unlimited call the ISP. A safeguard to protect the service and quality meet the high consumers (also called " Net-greedy * ") and not to punish brutally small slips or restrict uses. The ISP satellite Lembeye we reports that it is working on new offers in order to preserve the notion of unlimited while developing the conditions for such use unbridled. See you in January 2012 for more information ... * Definition of Net-guzzler .

Full text ( french ) here from Nordnet 

http://www.internetparsatellite.net/index.php/t/2
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davidbentleywalker
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Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 11:22am  
All Tooway services are unlimited in the sense that they will be never switched off regardless of download limits, however every Tooway plan is subject to a FAP, they is no FAP-Free plan available for the KA Sat system unless the customer is purchasing dedicated bandwidth.

A new winter offering was passed by Skylogic for a number of activations on the T10 and T10 Plus packages, which decreases the bandwidth reduction when the 4 weekly quota is exceeded.  

On the T10 package, where normally if the 4 week quota is exceeded you would be reduced to 64/32kbps, this has been upped to 1024/256kbps. Which is more than usable and reasonable.

The T10 Upload speed has also been increased to 10mbps/4mbps, equal to that of the T10 Plus.

Many providers have advertised this increase as unlimited, which is correct in the conventional sense, however in a FAP sense is incorrect.

I hope this helps.
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creusetec
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Reply #9 - Jan 15th, 2012 at 10:13am  
Thanks for the clarification of the 10 and 10 + offers

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