SatSig topic:

HX50 signal won't go above 29

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Aug 30^th, 2009 at 11:06pm

I just received my satellite through wafa, i used a military GPS to get my exact lat and lon, punched in all the info into the modem that i got on the RPR sheet from wafa, adjusted my satellite going by what wafa website says to, and i get nothing. i have looked over the settings on the modem, all match up to my RPR sheet. i checked both my cables and both are good with a low resistance (<1.2ish), i have even spent hours outside slowly rotating my dish about 10 degrees in each direction of where W3b should be, then adjusted the elevation nut about 1/6th of a turn, and swept again, i did this over about 5 inches of the threaded elevation screw. I then repeated this whole process over and over again using different polarization settings. during all this i have only "spotted" 2 signals, neither of which will go above 29. might this still be aiming issues or is it possible i got the wrong numbers on my RPR? right now i have my transmitter and receiver in the horizontal position, the 505 and single notch are away from the feed arm, i rotate the entire satellite for my polarization, its the prodelin 1.2m dish

Dish Azimuth    227.96 mag N
Elevation    35.55
Polarization    40.89 (+3.5 for Eutelsat)

Latitude = 33.81, Longitude = 42.44
Lat = 33 degrees, 48 minutes North
Long = 42 degrees, 26 minutes East

Anyone here in Al Asad with a satellite finder or any experience setting up this particular system?

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 9:46am

You "spotted" 2 signals, neither of which will go above 29: The reading won't go above 29 due to wrong number settings or wrong polarisation. You have found two high power satellites, one of these is likely to be the correct satellite.

Satellites, in a south westerly direction from Iraq, are in a diagonal curved line across the sky from upper left to lower right, so once you have found any satellite note the adjusters so you can always go back to that one and start searching again, diagonally.

Regarding polarisation, note that the true Horizontal receive polarisation is achieved with the small white LNB module uppermost when the feed support arm is at the bottom. When you apply the polarisation adjustment angle by turning the entire dish +41 deg clockwise, as viewed from behind the dish, the feed support arm will now be on the lower left and the the LNB arm will be to the upper right ( both as viewed from behind the dish).
See image below:

This image above shows a HX terminal as in Iraq, aimed at W3A satellite at 7 East. The entire dish is rotated 45 deg clockwise for polarisation, while facing towards the satellite. Elevation = 34 deg.

Regarding setting elevation angle this image below will help:

Here is how to make an inclinoneter.

Alternatively you can measure the distance marked with the white arrow below.

Read this page setting elevation angle on Prodelin 1.2m antenna for the measurement/elevation angle conversion. For 35.5 deg set to 28.8cm.

This gives only an approximate elevation angle. There may be significant error due to the loose central azimuth axis bolt and maybe also the pole not exactly upright.

If you have the polarisation correct and elevation correct and you have one of the two satellite with a reading of 29 then you are certainly on the correct satellite and the problem lies with the configuration screen numbers. The frequency and symbol rate may have changed recently or there may be some misunderstanding regarding other parameters on the configuration set up screen. Talk to WAFA. You can send private email with copies of the RPR sheet and screen dump image of your config screen to me eric@satsig.net and I'll talk to BW tomorrow about this.

Best regards, Eric.

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:32pm

i had already made up your inclinometer before i even got the satellite, i have mine setup just like you have your in the picture. the lnb and feed horn are away from the pole, the whole dish is rotated to about 45ish, the inclinometer is at 35. i just sent 7 pictures to wafa support, hopefully they can verify my settings and help figure out why i cant get the signal i need

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:35pm

my hx50 config screen shows a spot for the OTA frequency, but thats not shown on the RPR or on any screen shot i have seen on this form, should there be a number in the OTA frequency spot or is that for something else? to me that means over the air, as in TV.

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:56pm

I don't know what "OTA freq" means, but I have an example here of a config sheet for W3A and that shows "OTA freq 0", so I suggest inputting figure 0 (zero) on the screen. The screen must be a new version, I guess.

The "Satellite Frequency 11272" (in units of 100kHz) refers to the wanted carrier frequency in the cable.

If you set the LNB to "Pure" the modem does not attempt to command the LNB to an alternative local oscillator frequency. It assumes you have calculated the cable frequency like this example: Satellite frequency = 10877.2 MHz. LNB local oscillator 9750 MHz. Cable frequency = 10877.2 - 9750 = 1127.2 MHz = 11272 in units of 100kHz.

Note the figures for your service may differ from the above.

Make sure that the "Symbol rate" has the correct number of zeros.

Make sure you have "DVB Mode DVB S2 ACM"
Make sure you have "radio parameter Pure"
Make sure you have "Transmit Radio 2 Watt"

All other parametrs must be correct also.

Please tell me what LNB model number you have and what satellite frequency and what symbol rate you have set and I will look at the satellite and see if I can see the carrier here, as I am in the same beam as you.

Best regards, Eric.

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 7:14pm

my LNB is a invacom SPV-30SM, wafa gave me the freq of 11272 and a symbol of 13000000

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 8:20pm

Quote:

my LNB is a invacom SPV-30SM, wafa gave me the freq of 11272 and a symbol of 13000000

OTA is a military acronym for "Off The Air", typically representing actual intercepted radio frequency. In Ku-band terms, that's 1127.2 MHz. But I'm guessin' that 11272 goes in that setup box that you were askin' about.

But that's only my SWAG, as my majority experience has been dialing in OTA freqs. That said - although unnecessarily complicated in my measure - the number that goes into that box may in fact have to be adjusted by the LOF (another military acronym: Local Oscillator Frequency)

//greg//

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 8:23pm

The Invacom SPV-30SM LNB has two possible local oscillator frequencies LO=9750 MHz for the input range 10700 - 11700 MHz and LO=10600 MHz for the input range 11700 - 12750 MHz. Selection is by 22 kHz tone off/on.

In your case, with "Pure" selected, the LNB will operate at its lower, default, local oscillator frequency of 9750 MHz.

With the modem tuned to 11272, which means 1127.2 MHz, the satellite frequency being looked for is 9750 +1127.2 = 10877.2 MHz.

Ask WAFA to verify the satellite name, satellite orbit position, outlink frequency, symbol rate and polarisation. My LNB, or its cable, are faulty right now so I can't verify your carrier.

The W3B satellite is scheduled for launch in the second quarter of 2010 with an intended orbit position of 16 deg east.

Best regards, Eric.

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 8:40pm

this is what the top of my RPR says "Please enter the following information into your Hughes HX and on EUTELSAT W3B at 7". i thought the w3b satellite was already up and running at 7e next to w3a? if its at 16e and not even running right now, then thats definately a problem

Aug 31^st, 2009 at 9:00pm

I've got a fault of my own right now with my LNB or its cable.

See what WAFA have to say. I think they meant W3A at
7 East.

Two further thoughts during the night:

1. When you do "save", do the parameters get stored and continue to display as the new values on the screen ? If you can't make changes to the config screen then you need to do a "reset to factory default" command and start again. Call WAFA.

2. The azimuth direction 228 deg is approx south west. Fractionally left of the alignment of your building perhaps.

Best regards, Eric.

Sep 2^nd, 2009 at 9:27am

Hi Bryan

We have already send you emails regarding the changes that you have to made in the parameters settings.

We are waiting for your update .Have you managed to change the LNB type to PURE

Kindly update us regarding the same

Sep 3^rd, 2009 at 1:52pm

hi Bryan

Please make a change in the symbol rate as it is now 12000000.Please update us after this

Sep 6^th, 2009 at 4:06am

so my satellite was pointed perfectly, as soon as i changed the symbol to 12000000 i instantly got 85 signal withou having to move the dish. i have fine tuned the dish and im up to 92 signal, the hx50 says the receive and transmit is fully operational now. my new problem is that i have had the hx50 running about 3 hours now and it still says "Waiting for first heartbeat message". all the data from my rpr is entered correctly, i have rebooted it, still wont get past the heartbeat message. the only thing i can think of is that my site id is listed as "Not Commissioned" instead of the site id that was given to me in the rpr, is there some way to enter my site id or do i have to let the hx50 get that on its own when it connects? also if i go to the "register - installer" page and run through that, it gets to the point where it tries to connect to w3 to send the data, but it comes up with a time out error, that may be because its not commissioned yet. any ideas?

Sep 6^th, 2009 at 4:40am

Well done.

Contact WAFA and they should now be able to get your site commissioned. Don't interfere with the antenna, cables or modem during the commissioning process, which may take several minutes with software updates etc.

The hub will do cross-pol testing and as a result of this may ask you to make a small adjustment in the polarisation adjustment angle. If required, follow verbal instructions slowly and carefully. It may take the hub 30 seconds to make a measurement after you have moved the polarisation by 1mm so only move when they say. The idea is to get your polarisation adjusted into a very deep narrow null, less than 1 deg wide. This stops you interfering with other services and also stops you being interfered with by other services.

Best regards, Eric.