SatSig topic:

Hughesnet install using super buddy

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Nov 4^th, 2010 at 7:10am

I've got a question concerning the cross pol alignment procedure using the super buddy on hughesnet modems. The operation manual from applied instruments says this:
=============================================================
9. OPI and DiSEqC Monitoring

The OPI/DiSEqC Screen serves two similar purposes. First, it simulates the HughesNetTM
Outdoor Pointing Interface used to check cross-pol alignment of the HughesNet transmitters.
Second, it decodes and displays other DiSEqC commands received on the IRD port of the meter.
OPI Simulation
When OPI messages are received it displays them on the screen just like the OPI device.

HughesNetTM Cross-Pol Check Procedure

1) Align the dish using the receiving LNB just as you would a normal Ku band dish using the
Super Buddy Run Screen.

2) Connect the modem and PC to the transmit and receive cables and run the HughesNet
software.

3) Using the PC’s internet browser, access the HughesNet modem setup screens. Ensure that
the OPI display is enabled and display signal strength. The signal strength must be
displayed on the PC to generate the display shown on the meter.

4) Return to the dish and connect the Super Buddy into the receiver cable. The Super Buddy’s
LNB port should be connected to the LNB and the IRD port to the modem’s Rx port.

5) Go to the Super Buddy OPI/DiSEqC Screen. This screen displays the numbers transmitted
from the modem just like the OPI device.

6) Adjust the dish to peak the transmitter cross-pol quality number. The higher the number, the
better the quality.
=============================================================

This implies hooking the super buddy up to a live (powered on) modem, now I've seen warnings also on this forum I believe against fiddling with the cables with the power still on, so I've been disconnecting the power (at the switch) before disconnecting cables and aiming the dish using super buddy, this works like a charm but getting the highest IRD and signal strength possible doesn't mean your cross-pol is optimal ...does it?

Then there is this warning from applied instruments in their pdf on hughesnet installs:

=============================================================

Other Notes:
-It is NOT recommended to keep Super Buddy meter in line while checking modem status due to
attenuation from our circuitry.
-If you are going to use OPI feature in Super Buddy meter, be sure to have already turned on the OPI
feature in the HughesNet software on the PC. Then press the MENU soft key in bottom right corner of
LCD screen. Scroll to OPI/DiSEqC and press Enter.

==========================================================

What do you guys think they mean by checking modem status?

So in short I'd like to know what the safe procedure is for optimizing cross-pol on hughesnet equipment using super buddy (without calling them on the phone while optimizing;).

Nov 4^th, 2010 at 10:52am

"Checking modem" status refers to reading OPI data on your SB device that has been sent to it by the IDU (modem). The warnings here about attaching cables are for the most part directed at other than US installers. At present, the Hughes ACP feature is not available outside NA, so the TX cable remains disconnected for safety reasons. But inside North America, the ACP procedure cannot be performed without the transmitter. Note however, that Hughes modems have a built in safety feature that disables the transmitter unless/until it detects a usable signal from the satellite/transponder specified in the Setup/Installation satellite parameters.

//greg//

Nov 4^th, 2010 at 11:12am

Quote:

this works like a charm but getting the highest IRD and signal strength possible doesn't mean your cross-pol is optimal ...does it?

Rotating the polarisation near the optimal position will make so little difference to the signal quality it is not possible to peak up the polarisation by adjusting for the best signal. You will have better success if you misadjust the polarisation significantly so that the the signal quality is distinctly degraded and the degradation obviously varies as you alter the polarisation angle. Note the exact degraded quality and the reading on the polarisation scale. The polarisation scales on Hughesnet yokes are excellent. Repeat on the other side of the polarisation peak, adjusting till you get the exact same degraded level. Then half the angle between the two scale readings and you will be very accurately set. It is important that you choose a significantly degraded level, measure and get it exactly the same either side and the half the two scale readings. It does not work well if there are varying carriers on the opposite polaristion, e.g. TDMA.

Quote:

what the safe procedure is for optimizing cross-pol on hughesnet equipment using super buddy

An alternative to the above halfing method between two degraded signals, is to use the spectrum mode. If you misadjust the polarisation you should be able to find cross-pol signals that rise rapidly with small misadjustments. Look in the gaps between carriers on the wanted polarisation. Because the cross-pol signals vary rapidly with small movements it is not too difficult to set the polarisation to the centre of the deep null.
If your Hughesnet network has an automated cross-pol measurement facility use that to check the final result. We don't have that here in Europe.

Note: Inserting anything into the LNB cable interferes, perhaps only very slightly, with the normal operation. If you want a safe approach to receive signal monitoring I would put a splitter in the LNB cable with the DC pass on the modem to LNB side.

Available from https://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Switches/Splitters.htm
An asymmetric 10 dB splitter with the 10dB/DC block on the monitor port would hardly affect the signal into the modem. Such an isolated monitoring approach precludes the use of any DiSEqC, tone or DC voltages sent out by the SuperBuddy.

Best regards, Eric.

Nov 4^th, 2010 at 1:20pm

Quote:

"Checking modem" status refers to reading OPI data on your SB device that has been sent to it by the IDU (modem). The warnings here about attaching cables are for the most part directed at other than US installers. At present, the Hughes ACP feature is not available outside NA, so the TX cable remains disconnected for safety reasons. But inside North America, the ACP procedure cannot be performed without the transmitter. Note however, that Hughes modems have a built in safety feature that disables the transmitter unless/until it detects a usable signal from the satellite/transponder specified in the Setup/Installation satellite parameters.

//greg//

I don't get it, the procedure described is all about using the OPI via the modem on the SB but that's not recommended??? Or are they referring to that splitter having to be in place? I have this: https://nace.us/shop/products/ctlbd-2.jpg
splitter, do I hook the SB up to the second OUT (white line) and the LNB to the IN port? I understand the automatic cross pol might not be available, but I should be able to use the manual mode right?

I'm not in the states but working on a US army installation in Iraq, the equipment used are Hughes modems, HX50 and other models, used on OIF net and Bentley walker. This particular setup I want to test it out on, is using OIF net with a HX50 modem, LNB is a NJR2784HH (LO 1000).

Nov 4^th, 2010 at 1:32pm

Quote:

Rotating the polarisation near the optimal position will make so little difference to the signal quality it is not possible to peak up the polarisation by adjusting for the best signal. You will have better success if you misadjust the polarisation significantly so that the the signal quality is distinctly degraded and the degradation obviously varies as you alter the polarisation angle. Note the exact degraded quality and the reading on the polarisation scale. The polarisation scales on Hughesnet yokes are excellent. Repeat on the other side of the polarisation peak, adjusting till you get the exact same degraded level. Then half the angle between the two scale readings and you will be very accurately set. It is important that you choose a significantly degraded level, measure and get it exactly the same either side and the half the two scale readings. It does not work well if there are varying carriers on the opposite polaristion, e.g. TDMA.

An alternative to the above halfing method between two degraded signals, is to use the spectrum mode. If you misadjust the polarisation you should be able to find cross-pol signals that rise rapidly with small misadjustments. Look in the gaps between carriers on the wanted polarisation. Because the cross-pol signals vary rapidly with small movements it is not too difficult to set the polarisation to the centre of the deep null.
If your Hughesnet network has an automated cross-pol measurement facility use that to check the final result. We don't have that here in Europe.

Best regards, Eric.

I've read a bit about these approaches (some also written by you I think Wink

and I'll be sure to try them out, sounds easy enough except for the spectrum analyzer part.

Nov 7^th, 2010 at 2:20pm

I've tried hooking the SB up to the modem with the splitter in between, I also tried it without the splitter. Couldn't get OPI messages to display on the SB.

Figured out what was keeping me from locking into a hughesnet transponder on the W2A, as it turns out my beloved super buddy can't lock onto DVB-S2 format streams, had me guessing for a while cause I did 2 identical setups (OIF net) and I could lock on just fine using manual tuning on one but not on the other, one was/is using DVB-S and the other DVB-S2, now I will have to use the OPI capabilities whether I like it or not.

I WANT A SUPERBUDDY WITH DVB-S2

Nov 7^th, 2010 at 5:59pm

I don't have a SB, but I do have an OPI - so I'm laboring under a small knowledge gap here. But with my OPI, no splitter is required - either to read ACP data or SQF data. I gather that the SB model you have emulates the Hughes OPI. You should know then that the modems will not return ACP data to an OPI (or SB emulation) when there is no ACP server on the other end. That's reportedly the case in your area, so the SB OPI emulation feature will do you no good optimizing transmitter isolattion. You have little choice but to do manual copol/crosspol - either using Eric's instructions above, or directly with the hub/NOC by phone or data link. But - unless it's because of the splitter - I don't know why the modem is not sending SQF data to your SB OPI emulation

FWIW, the actual Hughes OPI works equally well with DVB-S or DVB-S2. They're hard to find anymore, having been replaced with a more expensive device (also proprietary) that they call the DAPT (see https://cgi.ebay.com/HughesNet-DAPT-DiSEqc-Antenna-Pointing-Tool-Kit-w-Sq-/32061
2594131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5fff1d3 ) . Not that it will do you much good over there, I mention it merely as a point of interest.

//greg//

Nov 8^th, 2010 at 5:04am

Yes emulating the hughesnet OPI is exactly what it is supposed to do, more or less a hardware version of PC-OPI.

I've read in a hughesnet manual https://www.satsig.net/bentley-walker/hn7000s/HN7000S-HN7700S-Remote-Terminal-In... that you have to enable OPI on the modem inside the 'manual entry of satellite parameters'. What I tried was ticking the enable OPI box on the antenna pointing screen but maybe it needs to be enabled 'system wide' first. I don't have a box right now to try it out with but have one on order for myself so I'll be sure to experiment away with that.

I'll definitely try out PC-OPI too, looks pretty cool.

Nov 8^th, 2010 at 12:10pm

Quote:

I'll definitely try out PC-OPI too, looks pretty cool.

Tried sending a copy to the email address listed in your profile, it doesn't accept attachments over 100k. Do you have an alternate email address?

//greg//

Nov 16^th, 2010 at 12:45pm

Thanks greg, I downloaded it from datastormusers.com. Appreciate it.

Nov 16^th, 2010 at 2:14pm

Make sure you get the voice codec too. It converts the numerals to audio and sends it to your speakers.

//greg//