SatSig topic:

positioning HN7000S 2-watt dish

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Feb 25^th, 2011 at 7:11am

Can someone direct me to detailed instructions for positioning this dish, preferably with photos?

thanks,
JC

Feb 25^th, 2011 at 11:28am

Contact your service provider and find out what satellite you are supposed to point at. Also verify that your equipment is compatible with their network. Tell them part numbers of all your outdoor hardware as well as numbers on the back of your modem. Ask for configuration details from the service provider and also clarify what receive polarisation you are supposed to be using.

Once you have all the information, determine your latitude and longitude and pointing angles here: https://www.satsig.net/maps/lat-long-finder.htm
Turn on the blue azimuth direction line to see where to point your dish relative to your walls or nearby buildings or landmarks. Tell your service provider your lat/long.
When your LNB input rectangular waveguide has its broad faces to either side you are at the horizontal polarisation start position, before the adjustment amount is applied.

These pdf documents may be of help to you:
https://www.satsig.net/bentley-walker/hn7000s/HN7000S-HN7700S-Remote-Terminal-In...
https://www.satsig.net/bentley-walker/hn7000s/HN7000S-HN7700S-Remote-Terminal-Us...
https://www.satsig.net/bentley-walker/hn7000s/HN7000S-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf
wxw
Best regards, Eric.

Feb 25^th, 2011 at 12:34pm

Where is it you intend installing this system JC? I ask, because there may be subtle procedural differences that can be location-dependent.

//greg//

Feb 28^th, 2011 at 7:09pm

I'm in Calif., the dish is in Haiti, and I have a local installer here in Calif. who can help me via conference call w/ the people on the ground in Haiti. But the guys in Haiti are difficult to communicate with because they are not native English speakers and have thick accents, and they are not very tech savvy.

What I'm looking for is a document with photos that shows how to make the adjustments for the positioning. That way, we have a chance of directing the Haiti guys to make adjustments.

Our problem now is that the 2-watt dish is set at 1-watt, and the download speed is between 400 and 800 Kbps. We have the $79/mo. service, so we should be getting at least 1Mbps. We tried to change to 2 watt and got failure indication... couldn't get past that.

-JC

Feb 28^th, 2011 at 11:01pm

The power setting is purely administrative. It has nothing to do with operationally changing the output power of the transmitter. Please post what part numbers are readable on the outdoor electronics; particularly on the transmitter. 1 watt transmitters have white labels, 2 watt transmitters have green labels. It should be located between two fins. There may also be a part number on the base.

What is the diameter of the dish? Depending upon the satellite, you might possibly get by with a 1m dish. But count on a lot of premature signal degradation/loss due to atmospheric conditions on one or both ends of the connection. More likely you'll need a 1.2 or possibly even a 1.8m dish in Haiti

//greg//

Mar 1^st, 2011 at 5:39am

Thanks for your reply. Some more questions...

1) "The power setting is purely administrative. It has nothing to do with operationally changing the output power of the transmitter."

Do you mean the setting has no bearing? What if the transmitter is 2 watt and the setting is 1 watt? (as in our case)

2) re: part numbers.
Is the label on the transmitter visible without taking the assembly apart? I'll ask if they see a white or green label.

3) re: part number on the base... base of what?

4) re: diameter of the dish. I believe it's the 1m (actual about 99 cm.)

5) re: "depending on the satellite..." Are you saying that perhaps a different satellite may provide higher speed? How can we know which one is the best to use? Here are the Satellite specs from System Info on the HN7000S:

Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Secondary
Longitude: 127 West
Receive Frequency: 1110 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 33 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off
Router Address: 67.142.146.150

Again, the delivered system was supposed to be 2 watt transmitter. Observed download speeds are in the range about 400 to 800 kbps. This is the same system I used in Calif. and got typically 1.2 to 1.4 Mbps download.

FYI, I have also found the "HughesNet AN6-098P Antenna Installation Guide" which has Ch. 7 "Pointing the antenna"... I think this is the document I need to help the Haiti guys re-position the dish if necessary.

thanks,
JC

Mar 1^st, 2011 at 5:41am

PS> The GPS position of the dish is n 18' 49.823
w 072' 51.678

Mar 1^st, 2011 at 11:42am

Not really the best satellite to be accessing from Haiti. Note in your parameter list that it's denoted "secondary". Note also that the satellite itself is over the Pacific, well west of Equador. Hughes currently specifies HN7000S access from the Atlantic/Caribbean be via Galaxy 16 Longitude 99W frequency 1250.

But moving to your questions:
1. Again, that setting is purely administrative. You can put anything you want in that box, and it will not physically change the power output of the transmitter. If you have a 1w transmitter and check 2w, it will still transmit at 1w. If you have a 2w transmitter and check 1w, it will still transmit at 2w. You may not realize this, but tech support can look through the satellite and read your satellite parameters. That gives them an idea of what kind of equipment is on the customer end.
2. Depends upon the mount, but generally yes. Unplug the modem, face the dish, look on the top between the cooling fins closest to the dish.
3. The base in or on which the outdoor electronics are bolted to the feed arm
4. Ok
5. Speed is not related to satellite or transponder assignment. That's just the radio relay part. But the gateway server to which you're assigned is. That's the "router address" on your parameter list. As the number of customers assigned to any given server increases, the speed to each of those individual customers decreases. That's why speeds are faster in the middle of the night, because most of those folks aren't accessing the server.

Note that antenna pointing reference specifies the use of an OPI to point the dish (pg57). Do your friends in Haiti have one? Then pay particular attention to setting the POL angle (pg63). In the case of the coordinates you provided, that angle should be set at +67.2 initially. But that's only the coarse setting. From there they use the OPI to fine tune that setting (pg67). If they don't have an OPI, there are alternate but more cumbersome methods.

But rather than try to make what worked good in California perform similarly in Haiti, I recommend you start over with a new satellite/transponder/gateway assignment for the new location. For a $50 fee, resellers like Montana Satellite can arrange that for you (legally). See https://www.montanasatellite.com/hughesnet/hughesnet_satellite_change_request_fo...

//greg//

Mar 1^st, 2011 at 5:38pm

Thanks very much, you've sent us in a good direction. I will report back on the outcome.

best,
JC

Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 8:44pm

We are stuck on the positioning of the dish. I am trying to help the guys on the ground in Haiti remotely from Calif., with my local Hughesnet installer here also on the phone when available.

We have the correct satellite coordinates (elev, azimuth, skew) as given to us by the modem for G16 99W, plugging in the GPS values for their location on La Gonave in Haiti.

So far we are not seeing G16 in the sky at that location... no signal strength at all.

My installer says to check the level of the mast and compensate if necessary and I have relayed that to the guys in Haiti.

Also, my installer recommends possibly using a different frequency when searching for the satellite, then power cycling to return to the correct frequency.

What are the other frequencies, or a good frequency, for finding G16?

thanks,
JC

Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 11:41pm

(see above)

Also... the information I am finding online tells me that Hughesnet is using Ku-Band for Galaxy 16, as per: https://www.lyngsat.com/galaxy16.html

It shows 3 frequencies, none are 1250.

Further, the footprint for Galaxy 16 Ku-Band appears not to cover Haiti, as per: https://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=5501

Please advise.

thanks,
JC

Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 4:30am

I've been on G16/1250 for years, so I can tell you it's there and working. But pointing the dish is not the whole story, you must also have the satellite parameters set correctly into the user interface before the modem can correctly "see" the right signal.
G16-15K (HN7XXX) Satellite Parameters
Orbital location 99° West
Transponder 15K
Frequency 1250 MHz
Symbol Rate 33 Msps
Frequency Band/Modulation Ku Band – 8 PSK
Receive (Down) Horizontal
Transmit (Up) Horizontal
DVB Mode DVB-S2-ACM
DVB Program Num (User Data) 0
DVB Program Num (DNCC Data) 0

//greg//

Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:47pm

Please confirm:

How do you explain that the footprint map does not include Haiti?

Do you have experience with this setup IN HAITI?

thanks,
JC

Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 10:23pm

Those parameters were already programmed into the modem when my local installer tested the modem here in Calif. for G16 Ku-Band. The modem was then shipped to Haiti, connected to the Ku-Band dish, and G16 could not be found in the sky.

We are quite sure now that the coverage for G16 Ku-Band does not include Haiti. It does include parts of the Carib., including Puerto Rico and part of DR, but not Haiti. See https://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=5501

We are now going with G28 Ku-Band and have a frequency assignment from Hughesnet.

Will post my results here.

JC

Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 11:47pm

According to Hughes FSB_101101_01A
HNS Customers (Outside Continental U.S.)
Hawaii/Canada/Puerto Rico
Central America/Caribbean
are to access G16/1250 @ 99W.
See https://www.montanasatellite.com/downloads/FSB_101101_01A_Updated_Commissioning_...
And please recall that I stated earlier that you'll likely need a 1.2m or 1.8m dish to achieve satisfactory G16 access from Haiti.

I didn't supply the G28 info before, because (on paper) Hughes specifies it for use by
DW7XXX Small Office and Business Internet Service Plans
But here are the parameters anyway:
G28-20K (DW7XXX) Satellite Parameters
Orbital location 89° West
Transponder 20K
Frequency 1359 MHz
Symbol Rate 15 Msps
Frequency Band/Modulation Ku Band – QPSK
Receive (Down) Horizontal
Transmit (Up) Horizontal
DVB Mode DVB-S
DVB Program Num (User Data) 0
DVB Program Num (DNCC Data) 0

Note the symbol rate is less than half that of many other of their transponders, and the gateway has not been upgraded to DVB-S2. Both factors suggest reduced performance on that transponder.

//greg//

Apr 24^th, 2011 at 4:24am

Yeah, FSB_101101_01A says Hawaii/Canada/Puerto Rico
Central America/Caribbean, but it does not say Haiti and the beam footprint maps clearly show Haiti is not covered... P.R. and some of D.R., but not Haiti.

Our dish is .98 m, Ku-Band.

We have changed our minds and will try Satmex 5 next, which has stronger signal coverage for Haiti than G28. My installer has acquired a frequency for Satmex 5 and other params from Hughesnet, in order to reach the intended speed for the $79/mo. plan. Recommended dish size for Satmex 5 is 75cm.

If all goes well, my man on the ground in Haiti will shoot Satmex 5 on Monday, and we'll get the recommission and be up and running on Monday.

thanks,
JC

Apr 24^th, 2011 at 4:33am

(see above also)

You said .... "What is the diameter of the dish? Depending upon the satellite, you might possibly get by with a 1m dish. But count on a lot of premature signal degradation/loss due to atmospheric conditions on one or both ends of the connection. More likely you'll need a 1.2 or possibly even a 1.8m dish in Haiti"

I replied ... "I believe it's the 1m (actual about 99 cm.) "

So you suggested a satellite that would need more than a 1m dish, and didn't tie that specifically to the G16 until now.

So we went on a goose chase for G16, but hey, I appreciate the help nonetheless.

JC