SatSig topic:

Help with setting up a larger dish , using SatLink Ws 6906

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Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:56am

Can I give some background first .I am a UK ex-pat living now in Crete Greece.

We don't have a landline , so we jumped at the chance of Forthnet/Nova package 3 play . This is fast internet and telephone by TooWay and an offset Lnb on a 70cm dish for television, movies, Nat Geo , Animal Planet etc .
The phone and internet are fine , but we have a problem with rain ...every time it rains the signal disappears ! not heavy downpour type just ordinary rain.

I have called them numerous times and been charged to tickle the dish , and have asked many times for them to use my redundant Sky Uk dish 1.2 metres .Every time they decline, so my son sent me a WS 6906 for my bday as a diy present .I read the manual ,I looked on Lyngsat for Nova , but all the channels that I receive are not listed ,and by poking around on the net, this 3 play package seems to come from maybe 3 greek pointed satellites.

My question to the forum is:

1 If I update this finder, knowing it has RS232 female , and both my laptop and tower also have only RS232 female can I get a male/male socket to update the finder , will it help me line this big dish up ?,where should I be pointing at ?

2 I get a lock on about 5 satellites , all around 83%strength 57% sig quality
they are eurobird 16 ,hotbird 9 ,amos 2,atlantic 4 ,eutelsat w4 .I could wiggle the dish until I pick up similar strengths,I have been over the TooWay dish with a compass and inclinometer , and have set the bigger dish to the same attitude, or do I concentrate on finding this Nova on Eutelsat HB13B ...I find the sr 27500 , but hazy about the numbers for TP and TP frequency , cant see them .... sorry i am so long winded but it takes some explaining , now i have this finder i want to use it Cheesy

Dec 25^th, 2015 at 12:05pm

What I would do..

1. Without a meter

Using the Venton EXL-T Rocket twin LNB on the offset attachment on the Tooway dish connected to the indoor set top box. Tune the indoor set top box to one of the wanted TV programs. Position the TV screen so it is visible from the antenna or have someone observe the screen and report continuously what is visible in terms of picture and picture quality.

Carefully detach the Venton EXL-T Rocket twin LNB from the Tooway dish and carry it, with the power on, to the new large 1.2m dish and attach it. Attach the LNB tilted in polarisation at approx 20 deg clockwise as viewed from behind the dish or anticlockwise as viewed from the front of the dish. Your photo shows this 20 deg polarisation tilt applied.

Point the 1.2m dish manually till the same TV program is received.

Peak up by moving the dish sideways till the picture is lost. Mark the position with a tiny scratch on the metal pole or use fine point felt tip marker. Move the other way till the picture is lost again on the other side. Mark the position and then move the azimuth to the centre between the two marks.
Repeat process in elevation.
Repeat both azimuth and elevation peaking.

2. With meter

The problem here is the long learning curve associated with learning how to operate the WS 6906 meter, its interaction with the LNB and the identification of unique ard receivable carriers. https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Nova.html

The meter can do two things to help.

1. It can provide a simple indication of power (intensity) from the satellite. This indication will rise for any and every satellite and this is useful for perfect peaking up on any satellite. Cheap $15 meters only have this function.
Such meters do not tell you which satellite is which or help with polarisation alignment. In the current situation HB13E will probably give the highest reading and threfore the highest reading is likely to be HB13E.

2. A meter like WS 6906, may identify a satellite but only if the meter knows the local oscillator frequencies and polarisations of your LNB and how these are controlled from the meter. The channel programming needs to be up to date. Also the meter needs to be able to demodulate the carrier and thus measure quality. The meter may be unable to demodulate 8-PSK carriers.

It is not clear from your picture if you have an LNB on the 1.2m antenna. If it is a standard Ku band LNB then you may have some success pointing the dish by connecting the meter to this standard LNB. There are many types of LNB, see https://www.satsig.net/lnb/explanation-description-lnb.htm

A standard Ku band LNB has:
Two oscillator frequencies, 9.75 GHz and 10.6 GHz with the higher frequency option selected using a 22 kHz tone injected into the cable. Such an LNB may be used to receive 10.7 - 11.7 GHz using the lower 9.75 GHz LO frequency or the higher band 11.7 - 12.75 GHz using the higher 10.6 GHz LO frequency.
Dual polarisation switched remotely using two alternative DC supply voltages. 13 volts makes it receive vertical polarisation and 19 volts make it receive horizontal polarisation.

Dec 26^th, 2015 at 9:54am

Thankyou for all the advice ... I did think it would be a simple job to cut over to the big dish , the rain problem is driving me nuts,apart from cancelling the contract, and then we have nothing to watch !...is to take this meter to a satellite engineer locally and ask him if he is able to update it for me , it is new but there is an eu.bin update for it. Because there is so much wrong info on this Nova/Forthnet setup , the most detail I can get from Satbeams.com is that Fortnet have spread services over HB 13B and 13E . My big ex-UK Sky has a twin lnb , and ideally I will drop the feeds off the small dish and pop them onto the large dish ,( I have done the alignment and inclination copied off the small dish , and have 4 default sat signals , all with much improved signal quality) ... that hopefully will cure the rain problem! especially when the service is firing obliquely off a tiny dish ...if not will get a private installer round ... wkua on what I can do . Thanks very much for your input.

Dec 26^th, 2015 at 3:08pm

You say: " ideally I will drop the feeds off the small dish and pop them onto the large dish"

I can see no problem doing this with the television receive-only service from Hotbird at 13 east.

But you should definitely NOT interfere with or move the Ka band transmit/receive module from the Tooway dish. The Tooway dish, its Ka band circular polarisation feed system and the tx/rx module should be regarded as a unit.

If you finally get good results with the TV, you are welcome to put a picture of the finished 1.2m dish here.

Dec 27^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

Hi Boss,
The TooWay is fine , i didnt want to interfere with it , just to move the TV onto the big dish . I went thru Satbeams Nova packages on 11823 11938 12130 12169 ,added symbol rate polarisation etc and found a good , but yet wrong array of Italian channels , and by comparing both the small and large dish , managed to get 85% sig strength and 75 signal quality on 1.2 Sky dish , thats with the old Sky twin LNB....I took the coaxes over to the new dish and "hey presto" its now running on the Sky dish AOK . I still have to find out why I cant see Nova on this meter , there are free to air chans on the array .I now have sparked interest, as a friend has an unused unworking 1.6 motorised system that he may donate to me .....we will see .I modified the inclination on the dish as I thought a vernier adjustment would make it much easier to fine tune , so have attached some pictures .Thanks again for your encouragement .

Dec 27^th, 2015 at 2:19pm

Well done.

A reason why the meter might not respond to a carrier is that the data stream content structure (DVB-S or DVB-S2) and/or the modulation (QPSK or 8PSK) are not compatible.

The meter is good for DVB-S QPSK carriers.

Nova carriers may be DVB-S2 8PSK carriers.

Look in the left column on the lyngsat pages.

Further, the meter may be unable to display a picture due to encryption or non compatible image processing method.

Best regards, Eric.