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iDIrect 3100 Hub cannot see any tx

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Ex Member
Ex Member

Oct 5th, 2008 at 3:44pm  
Hey everyone,

This is a new problem to me. I am using a 3100 with 6.0.9 firmware poinitng at IntelSat 706.

I have a decent lock at 17.  Here is the Kicker, The hub cannot see me, I have used two modems, three BUCS, and 2 LNBS, just in case, I know it isnt hardware at this point. I am completly lost. Any help from any of you would be great.

I am using a NJT5017f BUC: posted below is the option file in case any of you see anything you can do with it.

I do appreciate any help again.

Thanks.   Joe

     timeout = 15000
     server_ip = x.x.x.x
     broadcast_ip = x.x.x.x
     keep_alive_port_number = 2860
     NRD_server_ip = x.x.x.x
     NRD_remote_status_port_number = 2859
     service_monitor_interval = 1000
     download_monitor_group =
     download_monitor_port = 9000
     download_monitor_credentials = 1

     mode = 0
     vid = 1

     address = x.x.x.x
     netmask =
     rip_enabled = 0

     dns_enable = 1
     dns_cache_size = 100
     dns_cache_ttl_min = 3600000
     dns_cache_ttl_max = 86400000
     dns_forward_queue_size = 1000
     dns_forward_timeout = 2000
     dns_primary_server_name = ns1
     dns_primary_server_addr =
     dns_secondary_server_name = ns2
     dns_secondary_server_addr =

     interface = sat0
     network =
     netmask =
     gateway =
     metric = 1

     address = x.x.x.x
     netmask =
     rip_enabled = 0

     interface = ixp0
     phy_count = 1

     lan_ip = x.x.x.x
     lan_subnet_ip =
     lan_gw_ip =

     data_port = 0
     loopback = 0
     interface_type = 0
     rx_freq = 1129057500
     rx_acqrange = 500000
     rx_bitrate = 6154000
     rx_mode = 2
     rx_modtype = 1
     rx_fecrate = 15
     rx_scram = 1
     rx_diff = 0
     rx_specinv = 0
     tx_freq = 1000000000
     tx_bitrate = 1005000
     tx_mode = 0
     tx_modtype = 1
     tx_clksource = 0
     tx_fecrate = 15
     tx_scram = 1
     tx_diff = 0
     tx_specinv = 0
     tx_power_in_dbm = -15.000000
     rx_fsd = 326

     fsd = 74204

     power_uplink_control_processing = 1
     max_power_level_in_db = -10.000000

     music_present = 0
     odu_rx_dc_power = 1
     odu_rx_10_MHz = 0
     odu_tx_dc_power = 1
     odu_tx_10_MHz = 1
     odu_disable_tx_pwm = 0

     tx_watchdog_timeout_in_frames = 2

     fec_blocks_per_outroute_frame = 237
     symbols_per_inroute_frame = 79271
     outroute_fec_block_len = 512
     inroute_fec_block_len = 512
     unique_word_len = 32
     symbols_per_outroute_frame = 485407
     num_acq_slots = 1
     aperture_traffic = 8
     aperture_acq = 1087
     num_traffic_slots = 36
     payload = 2048
     skip_slots = 2

     ll_open_active = 1
     ll_tx_window = 1024
     ll_rx_window_backoff = 102
     ll_rx_window = 1024
     ll_t1_timeout = 4000
     ll_t2_timeout = 1000
     ll_t3_timeout = 5000
     ll_t4_timeout = 1500
     ll_t1_retry_limit = 5

     spoof_debug_level = 0
     spoof_passthru = 0
     spoof_timeout = 100
     spoof_oos_buffer_size = 32120
     spoof_keepalive_timeout_ms = 6000
     spoof_fwd_ack_ms_timeout = 200
     spoof_fade_timeout = 9000000
     spoof_reap_timeout = 480000
     spoof_syn_timeout = 120000
     spoof_max_sessions = -1
     spoof_accel_connect = 1
     spoof_accel_port = 80
     spoof_retx_buffer_size = 32000
     spoof_peer_retx_buffer_size = 96370

     hub_lat = 50.118889
     hub_long = 9.918889
     remote_lat = 30.943000
     remote_long = 46.094000
     spacecraft_long = 50.250000
     reflector_offset_angle = 17.000000

     down_translation = 10000.000000
     up_translation = 13050.000000

     cpu_util_test_enabled = 0

     port = 14599

     tx_segment_size = 70
     tx_passthru = 0
     rx_passthru = 1

     name = DEFAULT
     cost = 0.500000
     max_depth = 19
     max_depth_bytes = 29200
     max_depth_ms = 250
     drop_oldest_uis_first = 1
     rt_weight = 0.000000
     cir_trigger = 1

     name = NMS_TCP
     cost = 0.001000
     max_depth = 38
     max_depth_bytes = 58400
     max_depth_ms = 500
     drop_oldest_uis_first = 1
     rt_weight = 0.000000
     cir_trigger = 1


     name = NMS_UDP
     cost = 0.001000
     max_depth = 19
     max_depth_bytes = 29200
     max_depth_ms = 250
     drop_oldest_uis_first = 1
     rt_weight = 0.000000
     cir_trigger = 1


     name = UDP
     cost = 0.100000
     max_depth = 19
     max_depth_bytes = 29200
     max_depth_ms = 250
     drop_oldest_uis_first = 1
     rt_weight = 0.000000
     cir_trigger = 1


     name = TCP
     cost = 0.500000
     max_depth = 19
     max_depth_bytes = 29200
     max_depth_ms = 250
     drop_oldest_uis_first = 1
     rt_weight = 0.000000
     cir_trigger = 1


     id = 5049749
     is_encrypted = 0
     enc_algorithm = dynamic
     enc_algorithm_mode = dynamic

     id = 2
     is_encrypted = 0

     passthru = 1

     partial_passthru = 0

     mem_low_percent = 75
     mem_high_percent = 90

     device_path = /dev
     device_mode = tdma
     device_name = tx

     device_path = /dev
     device_mode = scpc
     device_name = rx1

     device_path = /dev
     device_mode = tdma
     device_name = btp

     device_path = /dev
     device_mode = tdma
     device_name = sof

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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #1 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 5:31pm  

whats your GPS?

Whats your AZM & Elev Angels?

What kind of antennas you are using?

Did You Check your Cable Connectors? or even try to

Swap them?

Whats the Current status of the leeds infornt and on

Back of the modem?

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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #2 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 5:56pm  
GEO location is spot on as it has been double checked, it was the first thing I thought of.

The cables have been swapped and all teh connectors have been replaced with compressions.

I know I am on the bird as the NOC has pushed option file after option file trying to rectify this issue.

Using the old BUC, a 3-watt, they were able to see me, but for some reason i was coming in off freq during the CW and i could not get more then a 14 db seperation.
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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #3 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 6:13pm  
So, you have Rx Lock with 17dB of receive signal?

1. Have you confirmed that you are locked on the correct spacecraft by having the hub reboot you (and watch your modem reboot)?  If so, then you have the right spacecraft and downstream carrier.

2.  Are you the first customer in these upstreams?  New Network or does this network have existing customers in it?  

2.  Tell me about your TX LED?  Does it remain off or does it come on occasionally?  

3. GEO coordinates.  They may have gone over them with you, but did they confirm the NORTH, SOUTH or EAST WEST settings?  I have seen folks put EAST in the options file when it needed to be WEST.

Things to check.  6.0.9 iDS  Have you confirmed that your modems software and options file match?  Look at the very top of your options file.  It should have the version 6_0_9 and also open a tenet session and check your software version as well. Command: version  or versions_report

If you havent already done so, have the hub get some test MHz and talk you through putting up a pure carrier on a test freq? If this has already been done, did they see you?  

How do you know it isnt hardware?  The pure (CW) carrier will confirm that statement.  
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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #4 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 6:54pm  

just to confirm I have a 17 rx lock, and have watched the modem reboot about 20 times so far after every opt file load the NOC has pushed. so I know I am on the right bird.

I am an existing customer as I have about 30 or so dishes with the provider all on the same network. This was supposed to be a simple move from one building to another. let me tell you, it hasnt been so simple.

I have rechecked the GEO locations to make sure they were N and E as per the requirements of my location, the noc has done the same.

I am running version 6.0.9 on the modem using iSite 6.0.9. This has been verified through IntelSat a few times so far as well as myself using the same command. That is why I am at a complete loss.

I was hoping I may be overlooking something or maybe someone here may have run into the same issue before and could point me in the right direction.

When I put up a pure carrier they do not see me using the NJT5107f BUC, however using the original BUC, a 3-watt that the Model slips my mind right now, they see me, just off freq and I cannot get more then a 14 db seperation.

So far I have used on this site 2 brand new modems and 2 brand new BUCS, tested the cables, replaced the ends and grounded everything known to man. I dont know what else could be left on my end.

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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #5 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 7:16pm  


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Ex Member
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Reply #6 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 7:25pm  
I appreciate the time you are spending on this.

I have a green TX LED. Solid.

Disconnect the rx cable, the tx light goes to blinking amber. odd to me.

the network LED is always blinking Amber, just does not have Net lock.
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Ex Member
Ex Member

Reply #7 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:28pm  
You need to seriously take a hard look at the IF/RF uplink chain of your system.  If your modem is tx'ing then it has its frame start information to get into the upstreams (read: it is receiving its timeplan provided by the downstream carrier and is attempting to burst into the TDMA upstreams).

The modem is doing its job to push Lband out of the tx port on the back of the 3100, so you need to look at the associated tx cabling as well as any RFT hardware (BUC/SSPA) in that chain.  You are not getting out of the end of the antenna.  

There is a (remote) chance you are radiating, if that is the case, then you are either exceeding the configured UCP at the hub, or you are waaay below it.  You can rule out a radical intial tx value (say if the how has you commissioned too high or too low) by having the hub proble you up and down 5-7 dB.  If that doesnt get the network lock, then your uplink IF/RF chain is the culprit.

Have them use the probe tab in iMonitor to adjust your tx up and/or down.  If no luck still.  Start looking at your tx chain.

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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:52am by N/A »  
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Eric Johnston
Senior Member

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Posts: 2109
Reply #8 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:23am  
When I put up a pure carrier they do not see me using the NJT5107f BUC, however using the original BUC, a 3-watt that the Model slips my mind right now, they see me, just off freq and I cannot get more then a 14 db seperation.

When the hub sees your CW carrier, why is it just off frequency and how far off frequency compared with other sites ?   Try turning OFF the BUC 10 MHz reference  to see if the carrier disappears.  If it continues on exactly the same frequency then the BUC is running unlocked and that might explain a significantly off frequency CW transmission and also failure of the hub to receive modulated bursts.  I would expect most BUCs to auto-mute (cease transmission) when the 10 MHz reference is removed and this is what may be happening with the 5017 model - so no output.

Was the CW carrier level measured ?  Try altering the modem output power in 1 dB steps till compression occurs.  Plot the transfer characteristic graph and work out what should be the nominal modem output level.  The 5017 has gain of 56 dB and output power of +36 dBm or 4 watts, so it needs -20 dBm drive for full output. The 3 watt BUC should be entirely adequate for testing.  Your operational nominal power should be about 1 watt or less to allow for several dB of uplink power control during rain.

As Mike suggests, check the TX cable.  Are the pins at both ends long enough to make proper contact inside the sockets.  Is the outer sheath properly connected at both ends or is the BUC power coming back via the LNB cable sheath.  Is there some splitter or other connector  in line with the TX cable ?

Why was the "separation" only 14 dB?.  Was it because you had not adjusted the polarisation sufficiently or was it because your transmit carrier was very low level and the hub could not measure better than 14 dB before they hit the noise floor ?  Is there water in the horn rings or OMT which may be attenuating the higher transmit frequencies and also causing the tx cross-pol to be bad.

One possibility is bad dish pointing.  17 may be a good enough receive signal but unless the 17 is the actual maximum, the beam may still be mispointed sufficiently for the narrower TX beam to be several dB down.

Best regards, Eric.
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Ex Member
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Reply #9 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 11:11am  

I have the same problem last time,
You may observed on the cross-Poll screen, and confirm to NOC that the correct value of the BUC LO frequency is the typical value of your BUC,
You may have this coded wrong in OF since  The BUC LO frequency will typically show a value of 13050 MHz for Ku band and 4900 for C band. These values are read from the options file on your modem. Using the RF Uplink and BUC LO frequencies, iSite automatically generates an L-band frequency for the Satellite Router.
It is important that you report the correct one to your NOC; C Band BUCs have two LO, either 4900 or 7375 based on model,

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Ex Member
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Reply #10 - Nov 25th, 2008 at 8:35pm  
Some BUCs invert the spectrum (i.e. the LO is *higher* than the required Ku band output) so you need the line:
     tx_specinv = 1
in the MODEM_PARAMETERS field.
We use 4W BUCs which to not invert, and 8W Codans which do.
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« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2008 at 8:27am by Admin1 »  
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Ex Member
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Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2008 at 7:26am  
I'm gonna dummy this down a little bit compared to others.  I understand the front of the modem has the TX LED...  What about the rear LED on the TX out?  I have seen modems in the past that fault out and they will display red... But you swapping out 3 modems would kind of squash this unless of course... it is your tx cable going to your BUC and it's shorting out somewhere along the way.  You said you rolled cables already?
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