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Tooway UK Crawling slow is it just me

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Eric Johnston

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May 13^th, 2012 at 7:54pm

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from: aealden
10/06/08 at 19:13:14

My service has ground virtually to a halt over the last 36 hours - I have only had it a couple of weeks. Thankfully I have a backup 3G connection which has kept me online.

I did a speed test and came up with wait for it ... 25 down 10 up at 756 ms! Thats slow.

Previously I had been getting 2500k down 40-50 up. If its going to be like this the whole time I am going to have to consider my options here. This kit cost GBP 1K and I was promised a reliable service. Otherwise I could have just stuck with my dirty 3G connection.

Any one else having a similar experience??

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Eric Johnston YaBB Moderator ★★★★★ Offline Posts: 2109	Reply #1 - May 13^th, 2012 at 7:54pm 10/06/08 at 21:25:10 Please report this problem to your service provider so they know about it and can get Skylogic to investigate. Best regards, Eric
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Reply #2 - May 13^th, 2012 at 7:55pm

from: aealden

10/07/08 at 10:38:25
Thanks Eric - I did that its now back to full speed this morning with 48 hours at extreme slow speeds.

10/07/08 at 11:48:1
Having said that it crawled again for an hour but now it seems pretty great, I hope this lasts .. I am getting 3090k down and now 37 up. It feels fast and responsive.
I think that they are fine tuning or something - I know my dish is well pointed etc as it was done by a pro. How else would I get magnificent down speeds consistently for a week and then have 2 days off at 20k ?
I wish skylogic was a bit more open with information.

10/07/08 at 13:57:20
Overcast here and now no connection only  flashing lights. Pretty standard British weather...

10/07/08 at 14:14:38
OK weather has not changed - if anything it has worsened. its roaring along again.
I have only been connected with tooway for 2 weeks ? From what I can gather SkyLogic are not managing this platform at all well.
Does anyone have any idea whats going on there? Will this improve? When it works i works well.

10/07/08 at 14:32:33
Wow.. Its back on again..
Speed results are coming in at
2607 kbps down
209 kbps up
647 ms latency
That is the first time I have got a result that fits in with the specs.. the weather here is overcast with a tiny bit of wind.
I have spoken to my provider who say that SkyLogic are struggling to manage this platform. I think they should really let us know the score, and give us some news on when this might become more stable.

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Eric Johnston

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Reply #3 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:08pm

10/07/08 at 15:52:07
If SkyLogic are struggling to manage this platform and the service has worked well for some time, worked badly for a while and is now up working well again this would be consistent with some technical or configuration problem, perhaps related to the green uplink beam alone.

Tooway � Ka band uplink spot beam coverage - Hotbird 6 at 13 deg east

I think this all goes to confirm that real time network status information needs to be made available by Skylogic.

Best regards, Eric.

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Reply #4 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:14pm

from cylent
10/07/08 at 16:00:08
Let me guess... Skylogic ... You really should not be complaining at all. I am amazed they know how to turn on their computers. I rest my case.

from aealden
10/07/08 at 16:21:44
Yes that would be consistent with Brousages loss of service is in france as he is also in the green belt I think.

It would be very helpful if Sky Logic posted live service status as otherwise you just dont know whats causing the problem.

Well that is good to hear that you guys are getting reliable service, hopefully there has been a major tweak to improve the service. Or maybe there has been soomething on my account tweaked since I reported the problem .. does it work like that?

Its been very consistent now for several hours. Better than it ever has been in since I have had the system for 2 weeks.  up is 208, down  2405 ( the down has always been good) and a perfect latency of 643! If it stays anything like this I will be a very happy punter!

Regards, �Alex

10/07/08 at 16:41:30
I will continue to report how the service is going over time for the benefit of other Green belt users !

from cambrian
10/07/08 at 18:27:30
after 2 days of losing lock for quite long periods (some due to the dreadful wet weather here in SW. Wales), my connection has locked on now AND when I ping bbc.co.uk the time is 597ms, YES 597ms. This is about half the usual interval. What has happened? A miracle?

Hope it lasts!
Regards, Tony

from aealden
10/07/08 at 18:45:17
Hi Tony,
Experiencing the same here - I initially thought it was the weather as well, but on monday it was clear blue and no internet!
Lets hope they have figured it out in Turin and that this is what we can expect going forward! The extra 4-500 ms and improved up speed really makes the difference!
Regards Alex|

10/07/08 at 19:25:18
yes I was keeping an eye on that through BBC weather the report on sunday was visibilty : good , winds low.
So based on that I discounted weather as the cause of the problem.
I also imagine the momma of a dish they are using in Turin will be able to cope with a heck of a lot more than our little pip squeeks! (at least I hope so)
Alex

10/07/08 at 21:28:46
Cool thats very handy thanks

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Eric Johnston YaBB Moderator ★★★★★ Offline Posts: 2109	Reply #5 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:16pm 10/08/08 at 09:00:48 Here is a view of the Skylogic Skyport in Turin, together with an overlay of the weather. Click here for rain map of Skylogic Skyport in Turin If it is grey then it is cloudy. �If blue then it is raining. �If you can see the dishes it is clear sky. Best regards, Eric.
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Eric Johnston YaBB Moderator ★★★★★ Offline Posts: 2109	Reply #6 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:18pm from cylent 10/08/08 at 10:46:35 if its cloudy then they should increase the output power. or am i wrong?
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Eric Johnston

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Reply #7 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:21pm

Yes, the Skylogic hub should use uplink power control to increase their uplink power during rain attenuation. �To do this they need to have a transmit high power amplifier (BUC or HPA) with a rating perhaps 8 times more than the normal operating power. �e.g. 160 watts rating for 20 watts normal power. This would allow for up to 9 dB power increase during heavy rain. � To make it work they need a beacon receiver, carrier monitor receiver (and possibly a radiometer) and an uplink power controller to vary the transmit drive. �This controller needs to be installed, carefully configured, tested, switched ON and operating normally.
Operating UPC is tricky and dangerous. It is very easy to accidentally go to full power and overdrive the satellite - so extreme caution is needed. �Ideally the Hotbird 6 Ka band transponders have AGC which means you can run the uplink far higher than required and the satellite itself will adapt its gain according to the uplink clear sky/rain. �The snag is that this works best only with one giant carrier per transponder. �I don't know if Hotbird 6 has AGC on its Ka band transponders.
I don't know if Skylogic have UPC installed at their earth station or if it is working. �I would hope they have, thus my use of the word 'should' in the first sentence above.
The outlink carrier (from the hub to all remotes) is one matter, �the other problem is the inbound bursts from the remotes. �The best solution to rain is a hub earth station dish maybe 8 times larger in area than needed during nominal clear sky operation. �When it rains in Turin the received signals are attenuated by rain but also the system noise temperature of the hub dish goes up as it looks more into the warm rain at 270K rather than than cold sky/space at 3K. Its G/T is reduced as well as having the incoming burst signals attenuated.
Useful link: Beacon receivers and uplink power controllers from Novella, UK
Best regards, Eric.

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Eric Johnston YaBB Moderator ★★★★★ Offline Posts: 2109	Reply #8 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:24pm from: cylent is it me or do those look rather small for the job?
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Eric Johnston YaBB Moderator ★★★★★ Offline Posts: 2109	Reply #9 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:25pm 10/08/08 at 23:31:27 There is a scale if you use this page:<br>https://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm The dish marked is about 22 ft diameter. Best regards, Eric. wxw
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Reply #10 - May 13^th, 2012 at 8:29pm

from cylent
10/08/08 at 23:50:44
so then let me ask you this:
in my option file it says:
hub_lat = 45.105000
hub_long = 7.722000
when you plug those in you see they land in the empty area of the parking lot (or what appears to be)
if i want to modify them to be exact would that make a difference?

from aealden
10/09/08 at 09:30:04
Just to report I still have consistent service, with 200k+ up 2000k+ down 650-750ms. Very happy - I am using this mainly for my web design work and I am totaly happy with the speed now. It behaves like regular broadband now.
I could probably get a decent skype out call on this now... I will have a go and post the results here..
Alex

from welshbarn
10/09/08 at 16:48:32
Thanks for posting your times etc Aealden - it is really helpful to know what is going on with others on Tooway.
My speeds have improved over the last fortnight too.
Currently 1800 down and 214 up. Not as good as it has been but certainly a vast improvement on the last few months.

from aldean
10/11/08 at 00:51:38
Thanks welshbarn, well my speeds have dropped massively this evening, but as I have detailed in my post in the �how well does my tooway perform?� thread I think I may have entered the Fair Access Policy �penalty box�.
Even though speeds have dropped it still seems pretty usable, strangely web browsing is fastish, Remote desktop connection on windows server is still doable, sure downloads are only at 11 kbytes per sec compared with 200 normally. My Latest Speed test came in at 74kbps down and 10 up. With a still respectable latency of approx 750 ms.
Am I in the Penalty box?? I am not sure .. I got home late and downloaded the latest Itunes update, plus I think someone here had spent some time on video skype.
It says in the .pdf that Eric uploaded that FAP only kicks in when the network is overloaded !
Is the network already overloaded?? Does anyone have any idea how many users are already using it and how close it is to peak capacity?
Anyone else had a speed drop today?
Regards Alex

from aealden
10/11/08 at 09:38:14
I woke up this morining, and did a speed test and I would appear to be out of the penalty box. (If I was ever in it - although I think I was)
Quite happy to see even in the penalty box speed seems usable - surprising considering they went down as low as double dialup... but good.
probably worth doing any big downloads at night before bed, so that if you enter the box it will have time to recover by morning!||

from welshbarn
10/11/08 at 14:12:08
Hi Aealden, according to BW I haven't entered the penalty box ever. But I did notice a distinct slow down after downloading one file that was over 500mb (!!) . The download of the file was very fast but for a couple of hours afterwards things did seem delayed.
I wouldn't really blame it after that size of download!
Like you , the next day I was fine.

from Tea_Leith
10/13/08 at 17:26:58
Please see my comments in the other thread reagarding Too-way.
Essentially, I had very slow access all weekend (Sat and Sunday 11th and 12th) - not sure about today, I am at work!
Does anybody know if SKYPE works via this technology. I managed to get the echo123 service to work ok, when I spoke into the mic. it repeated it back to me with no break-ups, I didn't have any friends or colleagues on line to test with at the time! Then the slow down occured.
I am waiting for a response from Skylogic via my provider on why I seem to have gone into a permanant slow-down, not sure if I am in the penalty fair use area or not.
I have asked if there is a page that you can look at see service levels, also how much I have downloaded so far in this calendar month. I am told "It is coming".
Does anybody have a direct contact with Skylogic, I looked on the internet but unfortunately do not speak any Italian. Is there anybody in the UK that we can speak with?

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pladecalvo Senior Member ★★★ Offline Posts: 78 Valencia, Spain	Reply #11 - May 24^th, 2012 at 1:08pm "Does anybody have a direct contact with Skylogic,?" ....I wouldn't bother trying if I were you. They'll only ignore you when you complain like they have me.
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europe-satellite.com Senior Member ★★★ Offline Posts: 541 London UK	Reply #12 - May 24^th, 2012 at 2:47pm Quote: "Does anybody have a direct contact with Skylogic,?" ....I wouldn't bother trying if I were you. They'll only ignore you when you complain like they have me. Skylogic is not the address to contact, if you have problems you should contact your provider. Skylogic does not support consumers/end-users direct.
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pladecalvo Senior Member ★★★ Offline Posts: 78 Valencia, Spain	Reply #13 - May 24^th, 2012 at 7:41pm Quote: Skylogic is not the address to contact, if you have problems you should contact your provider. Skylogic does not support consumers/end-users direct. Perhaps you're right...but a quick mail from them to tell me that wouldn't have been too much trouble. Better than just ignoring.
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europe-satellite.com

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Reply #14 - May 25^th, 2012 at 5:04pm

Quote:

Perhaps you're right...but a quick mail from them to tell me that wouldn't have been too much trouble. Better than just ignoring.

I think, if you want to solve your problem you should contact the right company/person, in this case your provider.

You won't solve your problem and you are only wasting your time when you contact the wrong company/person.

Skylogic does not communicate with consumers/end-users direct.

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« Last Edit: May 25^th, 2012 at 7:47pm by europe-satellite.com »

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Reply #15 - May 25^th, 2012 at 6:50pm

pladecalvo does have a point. �In my experience customers definitely get the best support and the truth when they phone direct to the technician or engineer at the teleport hub who has the computer and spectrum analyser screens directly in front of him.

With remote control of 10 teleports and 82 beams the Tooway system has the possibility of devolving some limited hub screens out to the resellers but the technical skills of the resellers then also becomes a critical factor. Also, resellers have no visibility of the traffic flows, anomalies in the terrestrial networks and the router configurations that link all the teleports and gateways together.

Tooway resellers have sales and profit in mind and need to think long term to justify the expense of employing an engineer to deal with technical support. Those resellers who do have such people are to be commended and you will get somewhat better customer support from them. Unfortunately, the presence or otherwise of good customer support is not visible to the typical potential customer who gets some glossy marketing/sales pitch put though their door or who reaches some fancy Tooway sales web site.

If you are a Tooway customer with a difficult fault, all I can suggest is to be persistent with your complaint. �It may well need the reseller to try to relay the problem to Skylogic where the trouble can hopefully be correlated with other similar complaints and investigated. Note that the reseller may well also experience frustration, difficulties �and delay in getting through to Skylogic.

Remember that while Tooway is really really cheap it is also incredibly complicated and expensive to provide and operate.

Be thankful that you are not being told to contact a call centre in India.

If you want a more personal service think about the Avanti-Hylas alternative from here in the UK. I must be biased Wink

.

NB: I have said that the value of a VSAT system to the customer depends less on the hardware choice but more on the skill and competence of the engineers configuring and operating the network. The sales/marketing people also need to avoid overloading the network will too many customers sharing or raising customer expectations above what can be expected for the price paid.

Think of VSATs as charity businesses providing service for people in the middle of nowhere and you will not be far wrong.

Divide 82 spot beams to customers, each max 450Mbit/s, by 2,000,000 projected customers and you get some idea of where Tooway is going.

Best regards, Eric.

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« Last Edit: May 25^th, 2012 at 9:35pm by Admin1 »

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pladecalvo Senior Member ★★★ Offline Posts: 78 Valencia, Spain	Reply #16 - May 27^th, 2012 at 4:46pm Quote: I think, if you want to solve your problem you should contact the right company/person, in this case your provider. I have done...repeatedly. I have been shunted around between three different people and each of them refuse to answer two simple questions. That's all I'm asking of Tooway...the answer to two simple questions.
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