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On-going Tooway Problems

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welshbarn
Ex Member


Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:30am  
Is anyone else having problems with Tooway?

If so please can you log it here and raise a Ticket with BW?

I have had intermittent problems since June. But the last week has been mostly unusable for browsing the Internet.

I hate to keep moaning on this forum but I have to convince them that the problem is not just me or an issue with my kit. I already know of one other user with exactly the same issues.

This is what is happening -

I call up a web page (say Google) and get instant response. Then I ask for a second page and 7 times out of 10 it says “Cannot Display the Webpage” . Sometimes it says “the DNS is not reachable”. Sometimes if I force an IP address change then it will work again for a few pages. This happens in both Mozilla and Internet Explorer. I am not techie but think this indicates that either my IP address is being lost , or that the DNS is not responding in a timely manner, or something else in the route is taking too long and timing out.  During these problem periods my Outlook will still function (although slowly) and so my connection is working. I am convinced it is a routing / IP address / Timeout problem.

Anybody getting this? Or any ideas?
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« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2009 at 6:28pm by Admin1 »  
 
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #1 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:50am  
Are you using IE8 because the Cannot Display Webpage is a standard error.  I get it sometimes as does my father, both running XP.  Used to get it more when running Vista Smiley.  Clicking the back button and re-accessing the required page seems to work.

Have you asked BW for the statistics for your account.  With this comes a graph which willl show you the RX and TX levels of your system.  You can see immediately see from this where there is downtime because the graph line is not visible.

Are you using a wireless router or are you directly connected to the Tooway modem?  If you are connecting via a router have you tried connecting directly to the Tooway Modem, thereby checking that it's not the router that is the issue?

Where are you based?  Have you gone back to basics and checked the alignment of your dish?

Have you raised this with BW and what reaction are you getting?  What have they run through with you as a way of checks?
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 10:51am  
Quote:
Is anyone else having problems with Tooway?

If so please can you log it here and raise a Ticket with BW?

I have had intermittent problems since June. But the last week has been mostly unusable for browsing the Internet.

I hate to keep moaning on this forum but I have to convince them that the problem is not just me or an issue with my kit. I already know of one other user with exactly the same issues.

This is what is happening -

I call up a web page (say Google) and get instant response. Then I ask for a second page and 7 times out of 10 it says “Cannot Display the Webpage” . Sometimes it says “the DNS is not reachable”. Sometimes if I force an IP address change then it will work again for a few pages. This happens in both Mozilla and Internet Explorer. I am not techie but think this indicates that either my IP address is being lost , or that the DNS is not responding in a timely manner, or something else in the route is taking too long and timing out.  During these problem periods my Outlook will still function (although slowly) and so my connection is working. I am convinced it is a routing / IP address / Timeout problem.

Anybody getting this? Or any ideas?


I think you have passed your traffic limits, thats all (90% sure Smiley). If not, check your install (pointing must be 200% right) Did you ask BW for traffic info ?
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welshbarn
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Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 12:08pm  
Thanks Guys.
I am using IE8 but have no problem if using dial up or a Vodaphone mobile USB.
I am on XP.
It seems to happen in spates. Ok for an hour, then a spate of no webpage found for an hour.
I have logged with BW and they are looking into it but the problem has escalated in the last week. It started with various problems in June, this is just the latest prob.Prior to this there were gaps in the modem being up but these seems to be ok now. Prior to the last week this IE page not found problem has not occured at all (in a year).
Apparently my TX is working full out which isn't good. And BW are looking into that.
I am direct to the modem not wireless, and only one PC.
I am in mid wales and struggle to find anyone who can come and check my alignment.
I can't see how i can be fapped as i can't get on the net!
thanks
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Eric Johnston
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Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 12:49pm  
If you access an IP address, e.g. ping 85.158.42.6 then your packets know where to go and don't need a DNS.  Does that work normally during your problem periods ?

If ping to an IP address does work OK, then try ping to each of your two DNS servers.  Try command nslookup  Can you connect to them reliably ? 

BW should be able to tell you what are the IP addresses of your recommended DNS servers.  If something is wrong with the DNS servers then the symptom will be failure of access to named websites ( e.g. ping www.satsig.net ), while access direct to IP addresses ( ping 85.158.42.6 ) remains working normally. Maybe a DNS server is faulty. What DNS servers are you using when via satellite ?  What DNS servers are you using when via dial up or cell phone ?  Are you using fixed DNS or "auto chosen" ?

For routing problems, try tracert 85.158.42.6  Does that get all the way there OK ?  If not, where does it fail ?  Does it work sometimes and not at other times ? Maybe Skylogic have a misconfigured or faulty router ?

Best regards, Eric.
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welshbarn
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Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 1:57pm  
Will try that. Thanks Eric.
El Molino has kindly sent me a copy of the FAP stats - which I couldn't access. They showed this weeks stats are 28% of allowance but that 78% of allowance for the pass 4w period.
I have queried it with BW as if I  am I FAP'd or throttled - - then how and why if last week is ok and last month is below quota.
Personally I can't see how my usage is higher than normal unless there is some problem as I have not done anything abnormal and have never been over quota before.
And me being Fap'd would not affect the other user who was also terrible over this last weekend.
I will update when BW get back.
Thanks for the help everyone.
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 2:20pm  
Ask BW for the complete stats for your modem.  This comes with a graph where you can then see your RX and TX levels.

Although the FAP graphs are very useful, and thanks to El Molino for sending them to you, if you get the other graph I am talking about you will see exactly what your modem is doing.  The graphs show 1)  RX/TX power and 2) S/N Ratio.  If you ask them today it should show the last two days of activity.

You haven't inadvertantly downloaded a MS update?  If you can do these between the hours of 12 midnight and 6am there is a 'happy hour' where only 50% of your usage counts.

Will be interested to hear how you get on.

Might be useful to post your dish settings so that Eric can confirm them?
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holdgaj
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Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 5:07pm  
Yup, me too. I've spent most of the last week trying to diagnose the problem. Like you I see abnormal DNS behaviour when communication fails. I've done quite a bit of analysis with wireshark to try and pin down the problem but I can't come up with anything definitive.

To eliminate any issues with my connected PC's I reinstalled XP, virus scanned it & connected it direct to the modem.  And captured all traffic.

When the problem occurs it seems to be preceded by failed dns queries. Actually they are not failed but delayed - the responses come in later - too late for the XP resolver (and also the browser) to recognise them as valid.  They are then discarded.

To get around this I tried upping the XP resolver timeout - its optimised by default for low latency networks. When the system is working well DNS responses come in subsecond which does not trigger a DNS retry. When the system is not working well DNS queries timeout and are retransmitted. Upping the resolver timeout does not always fix this - but it has improved matters slightly.

At the time these DNS anomalies occurred I tried using openDNS as an alternate - and to see if the issue was a failed DNS server or an overloaded one. This did not help.

From what I have seen so far it looks like an inability to send packets up to the satellite that is causing the problem (but this is NOT definitive). Packets are not lost, just delayed. In the case of TCP packets this is not so critical, In the case of DNS packets there is a timing issue - if the resolver can't get the IP address within a certain time, then the result is a page load error. I've seen DNS responses take over 8 sec at times. The standard XP resolver timeout is 1 second.

I have improved the performance of my system by the following:
Increased resolver timeouts (4 8 16 32 64 0)
Increased DNS Cache size.
Increased DNS ttl.
Removed most of the entries from my hosts file to increase DNS cache space (watch out for spyware immunizers that put 2500+ entries in your hosts file)
I also optimised TCP RWIN for a high latency network but I don't think it made a difference.( I did this because I was seeing TCP Zero window packets)

I've sent detailed information (protocol traces showing abnormal behaviour) to my provider but they don't help.

I'm very interested in sharing information with you to help pin down this problem. Can you PM me please ?

I'm also interested in hearing from anyone with a detailed knowledge of how the software in the modem works with regard to uplink congestion control.



Quote:
Is anyone else having problems with Tooway?

If so please can you log it here and raise a Ticket with BW?

I have had intermittent problems since June. But the last week has been mostly unusable for browsing the Internet.

I hate to keep moaning on this forum but I have to convince them that the problem is not just me or an issue with my kit. I already know of one other user with exactly the same issues.

This is what is happening -

I call up a web page (say Google) and get instant response. Then I ask for a second page and 7 times out of 10 it says “Cannot Display the Webpage” . Sometimes it says “the DNS is not reachable”. Sometimes if I force an IP address change then it will work again for a few pages. This happens in both Mozilla and Internet Explorer. I am not techie but think this indicates that either my IP address is being lost , or that the DNS is not responding in a timely manner, or something else in the route is taking too long and timing out.  During these problem periods my Outlook will still function (although slowly) and so my connection is working. I am convinced it is a routing / IP address / Timeout problem.

Anybody getting this? Or any ideas?

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Eric Johnston
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Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 6:23pm  
Quote:
I've sent detailed information (protocol traces showing abnormal behaviour) to my provider but they don't help.

holdgaj

Your provider needs to send the information to Skylogic in Italy and hopefully Skylogic will put it all together to work out what is wrong and fix it.

If the problem is lost uplink bursts from your site to the hub they can set a repetitive pinger (-t) going from your site and see what is coming into the hub receiver with spectrum analyser, packet capture etc.   It is possible to detect marginal low level bursts, distorted bursts, bursts off frequency, chirped bursts, bursts with errors, overlapping bursts, interfering bursts from different site etc.

Lost bursts should show up if you leave a pinger running like so: ping x.x.x.x -t

All rather guesswork I am afraid.  I hope we hear from Skylogic what is the cause of the problem in their service and how they intend to automatically flag up problems like this in future without waiting for customer complaints.  It is unreasonable to expect non-technical customers to diagnose such matters.  Note that some so called "service providers" are also non-technical; they are advertising/sales people.

Best regards, Eric.
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welshbarn
Ex Member


Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 7:05pm  
I am  thrilled to find someone else having the same problems! (although I pity you too!) as this will hopefully provide enough info to convince the providers it is a real problem. . Will PM shortly. Haven't heard back from BW yet about whether or not I am Fap'd.
Cheers.
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holdgaj
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Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 7:08pm  
Cheers Eric. I think my provider can't help - they can install a dish & understand very basic networking but that's it I think.

How do I get 2nd level support ? Is there a procedure that I can ask them to invoke ?

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europe-satellite.com
Ex Member


Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 7:24pm  
Quote:
Cheers Eric. I think my provider can't help - they can install a dish & understand very basic networking but that's it I think.

How do I get 2nd level support ? Is there a procedure that I can ask them to invoke ?



Contact us and/or click on the following link to get free traffic info and a pointing advise.

http://www.europe-satellite.com/EMS/contact/traffic_info_request.htm
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cambrian
Ex Member


Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2009 at 8:50pm  
It seems there are enough of us suffering considerable frustration with the TooWay unpredictable service to convince SkyLogic that there is a serious problem with the network.

Although the weather is completely clear here tonight and both modem light are solidly ON, I have been suffering poor or intermittent service for a few hours. If I can repair my IP address things work ok for a brief time then go wrong, a further Windows repair restores service briefly, very frustrating.

I have tried to raise a ticket with BW even by dial-up which I am using at the moment but I either get "page can't  be loaded" message or log in hangs.

Sadly, my opinion of TooWay has gradually diminished over the 18 months that I have been a user. It really should not be like this! Are there undiscovered problems in the system, or do SkyLogic know what is wrong but don't have the will or know-how to fix it? Anybody Know what is really going on?

Best regards,

Tony
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Sean_Williams
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Reply #13 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 1:00am  
I too am in Wales, not far from Welshbarn and Cambrian and I'm having similar problems.
The system works well for two or three days and then reverts to what is fast becoming it's default state - i.e. nearly useless.
I haven't bothered contacting Bentley Walker by telephone, or raising a support ticket with them as Welshbarn's experience of doing this is so disheartening: BW either obfuscate, close the ticket or try and blame the installation; that's if they reply at all.
Their latest idea is it may be the LNB assembly - they've now admitted they are aware of a bad batch of these.
If this is indeed the case, I should like to know why we weren't informed?

BW constantly repeat the assertion that the installation must be at fault. In that case, could it be explained to me how the system can work perfectly for a few days (I think the record is 5 straight days for me) before falling over?
Back in the summer, my system not only maintained a connection but was perfectly usable during the foulest weather (if slower); surely this puts paid to the possibility of a poor installation?

Whatever,  the upshot is a clear disinclination of BW to solve our connection problems on Tooway, while at the same time trousering the 170-odd Euro a quarter for a service that is not fit for purpose.
A revealing comment was made by a member of BW's support team the other day, which in effect boiled down to the fact that BW have government and military contracts to service which take clear priority over us poor sap Tooway customers.

Regarding FAP, I use an Internet (not LAN) traffic monitor (BWMeter) to keep an eye on things and do not go anywhere near the hourly limit, let alone the daily limit.

Finally I've had enough of being treated like this and I am going to raise a complaint at BW along with a support ticket following which I shall be tenacious in my pursuit of a resolution.
I am keeping a log of the system performance.

May I ask all Tooway users having connection difficulties to do the same, then maybe BW will get their act together and we'll finally receive the service we're paying so highly for.
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #14 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 9:51am  
I heard from BW last week that they are now only selling ku systems on Eurobird 3, as the ka capacity on Hotbird 6 is running low.  Could this be the issue, just simple over subscription?  Maybe things will be better when EutelSat's KA-SAT come on line later next year (fingers crossed).
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welshbarn
Ex Member


Reply #15 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 10:00am  
Still no word from BW but something definitely happened last night between 7pm and 9pm. For a week I have been getting the "page not found error" nearly every page I tried to browse. Last night the modem connection disappeared apparently whilst I was away from the pc. When I came back my net meter had logged 60mb download (which was not me - but could possibly have been internal traffic - unlikely though). Since then my connection has been fine. I can browse and no page not found errors. The speed was really good too.
This morning the up speed is poor but the down speed is ok. No timeouts so far.
Interestingly the only two pages I cannot access (they just hang ) are the BW ticket system and the BW Usage monitor!
Hoping to get more information later on. Perhaps something has been found?
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James-BW
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Reply #16 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 10:03am  
Good morning all,

Firstly I would like to clarify regarding the comments raised in the last post. The comments made regarding our client base were misconstrued,  the ticket system gives us a platform for establishing a written record of the issues raised and a means to deal with each case as they are raised. It also allows us to identify trends in calls raised and to build a picture of service status to progress any general service issues with Skylogic.

Please be assured that all of our customers receive equal priority and our response time to Tooway queries relies on our working in parallel with Skylogic and as soon as we receive feedback, our clients are informed immediately.

I urge clients experiencing problems to log the issue with BW, we are truly passionate about our clients and take any comments regarding the level of service recieved seriously. We will pursue Skylogic until a resolution is reached where it is clear the issue is not installation related or a matter of overuse. If a pattern is emerging of clients with the same issue then we absolutely must be made aware of the issue so that we can correlate the reports. If you do not currently have a login for our ticket system please kindly email support@bentleywalker.com requesting one.

Regarding the TX RX heads, we have identified a small number of units which are pushing maximum TX power (-1 to -0.5 db) to the transmitter in order to achieve signal stability and these units will be advance replaced. Those exhibiting this problem are clearly visible in our monitoring as displaying this behaviour and are identified on a case by case basis.

We are currently working to further enhance the support procedures and are in the process of testing a new method of logging calls for Tooway clients to simplify the process, more details will be released as testing is completed.

I will be contacting individuals on this thread directly to discuss all outstanding issues and a way forward.

Assuring you of our full attention at all times.

Best regards,

James - Bentley Walker
james@bentleywalker.com
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holdgaj
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Reply #17 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 11:09am  
Quote:
I heard from BW last week that they are now only selling ku systems on Eurobird 3, as the ka capacity on Hotbird 6 is running low.  Could this be the issue, just simple over subscription?  Maybe things will be better when EutelSat's KA-SAT come on line later next year (fingers crossed).


My recent analysis seems to bear this out. Perhaps someone could provide some statistics on the Satellite throughput over the last weeks. Could be illuminating.
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welshbarn
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Reply #18 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 11:15am  
Hi all,
Just to update.
James did indeed ring this morning and explain loads of stuff and reassure me that they are on the case and sorting things out.
In summary -
a) I was NOT fapp'd or in throttle. They think there was / is a problem affecting a few of us.

b) they had a problem with their email system which meant my emails weren't getting to them. Hence no previous response.

c) they are working on a solution to the ticket system being unavailable - so that you will be able to raise tickets via email even when no browser access etc.

d) They are sending me a new Tx RX head as they have identified mine as one of several that may have an issue.

e) They had been intouch with Skylogic and are now chasing them to find out what happened last night and if there was a fix or change put in that may have sorted things out.

So it appears that my three months of issues and this last week of hell may have been a combination of factors. Hopefully we are now making some progress.
Thanks for all the reponse and help, will update as things happen.
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A.Walker
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Reply #19 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 12:29pm  
I can assure you 100% this is not the reason for any poor performance issues that Ka is short of capacity . Ku has been recommended to even balance the roll out until the new Satellite Ka sat is ready in 2010 there has been a batch of low emission heads and there was also some issues with IP release but apart these matters the systems runs well on Ka or Ku , if you are a BW customer with any issues please raise a ticket and we will investigate
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cambrian
Ex Member


Reply #20 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 1:04pm  
Hi All,

I do hope Welshbarn's optimism will turn out to be justified but shouldn't we be forgiven for being a little cynical when a Service Provider claims that they can't make their email system work reliably and also their on-line ticket reporting has difficulty allowing users to log problems?

I don't know whether I have a suspect TRIA or how BW. can differentiate poor weather conditions from faults. It is not easy for them. The email I received shown below (RX levels) was sent during HORRENDUS weather, cloud base 10ft. heavy drizzle and rain, it was a wonder TooWay worked at all! BW are in SE. England, I am on the edge of the Cambrian Mountains where it is often very wet (like yesterday) although sunny in England. My system will often work very well in poor weather but as last night, fail miserably with a crystal clear sky. bright moonlight and stars. There appears to be no clear correlation between the poor performance recently and the weather conditions.

I am aware that the modem can boost output to give an enhanced rain margin but my dish and TRIA are wet much of the time with unclear consequences as far as performance is concerned.

Recently I received this email:-

"During routine maintenance of the TooWay network we have found that your modem is showing a low receive signal (RX)
This needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency as this will be affecting your modems performance and your internet experience".

Subsequently, without any adjustments to my set up, the speed test results below were logged.

Date        10/09/09 09:02:23
Speed Down      3287.40 Kbps ( 3.2 Mbps )
Speed Up      246.72 Kbps ( 0.2 Mbps )
Port      8095
Server      speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

Date        15/09/09 22:50:00
Speed Down      3299.84 Kbps ( 3.2 Mbps )
Speed Up      264.17 Kbps ( 0.3 Mbps )
Port      8095
Server      speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

Date        16/09/09 09:08:46
Speed Down      3262.71 Kbps ( 3.2 Mbps )
Speed Up      270.78 Kbps ( 0.3 Mbps )
Port      8095
Server      speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

This I believe indicates that the system can perform brilliantly given reasonable weather AND things working correctly at the Hub.

Best regards,

Tony
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Sean_Williams
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Reply #21 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 2:36pm  
Isn't it always the way - as soon as I complain, there's an improvement in the service, so I can't raise a ticket as the system is working fine Smiley

I tend not to use Tooway during the day, apart from weekends, so I can't vouch for it today, but last evening (23:00 - 01:00) it was working 'OK'.
This morning at 07:00 however it was positively hooning along - I've only ever seeing it work this well once before.
Normally, when Tooway is working 'OK', it's CLICK, one, two, three seconds before the reponse begins to download in the browser, whereas this morning it was CLICK, one and a response - almost like ADSL!

This has of course set a standard for Tooway to aspire to - they have shown the system can be fast and eminently usable, whereas the 'OK' service I have become used to is noticeably slower and less responsive.

I must say, I tend not to judge the service by Speedtest as I've found it can Speedtest perfectly well, whereas the experience of browsing may be very different. It's the quick response that I'm looking for.
A system that downloads web pages at a reasonable speed, but only after a few second's pause is actually no better than Dial Up when comparing the time taken to complete a page. On several occasions lately, I would say Dial Up would have been preferable, as at least it responds instantly.

HTH
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #22 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 3:00pm  
Can't vouch for Speedtest either.  I tend to ignore it and take the way the system is running, ie pages loading in a resonable time as a better judge.

For us guys in remote areas, who don't have phone lines, no radio phones and only a limited signal on mobile connect 'dongles' (we even have to go outside to make and receive mobile phone calls), Tooway is the only way of getting a decent internet connection.

I would rather have Tooway than what we had before any day!

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A.Walker
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Reply #23 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 3:47pm  
Dear Cambrian

regarding our email system this had NOTHING to do with internal networking etc and all to do with Demon Internet going pearhsaped Nationally .its now fixed but we were able to continue working the whole Company on our back up satellite feed  ,there was a backlog of tickets as we support over 6000 VSATS Worldwide its not suprising some delays were incurred however I would call that fairly enterprising action dont you ?

If you need to know more your welcome to call me 00442392463943

Anthony Walker

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cambrian
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Reply #24 - Oct 1st, 2009 at 4:37pm  
Hello Anthony Walker,

OK, I am sorry to hear you were caught up in the Demon problem, that explains a lot. But from the customers point of view, I still think it not unreasonable to be able to log a fault report when it occurs or view usage statistics - both of which I have failed to be able to do recently.

As for speed testing/performance monitoring - each to his own. It seems to me that trying to judge a system by page loading time and latency is problematic because you don't know how many other users are trying to do the same at that moment in time. Some pages make use of graphics which soak up loading time and others, like SatSig, contain mainly text and load easily - even on dial-up!

However they do say "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

My view still remains that TooWay is a potentially excellent product for people in my position but it is being devalued by unresolved problems.

Regards,

Tony
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welshbarn
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Reply #25 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 4:07pm  
All worked very well from Thursday last week until Monday. Good speeds, fast response and no "page no found " problems.
New TX RX head arrived. Fitted it.
Back to slow speeds, intermittent "page not found" and generally poor performance again.

It is raining. So maybe it is down to that. Will update when things change.
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #26 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 5:24pm  
Quote:
All worked very well from Thursday last week until Monday. Good speeds, fast response and no "page no found " problems.
New TX RX head arrived. Fitted it.
Back to slow speeds, intermittent "page not found" and generally poor performance again.

It is raining. So maybe it is down to that. Will update when things change.


Maybe rain or maybe ...... pointing/skew or .......... just passed your limits. Ask your provider for traffic info and a TX/RX report.
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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2009 at 7:12pm by N/A »  
 
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Reply #27 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 6:39pm  
Quote:
Regarding the TX RX heads, we have identified a small number of units which are pushing maximum TX power (-1 to -0.5 db) to the transmitter in order to achieve signal stability and these units will be advance replaced. Those exhibiting this problem are clearly visible in our monitoring as displaying this behaviour and are identified on a case by case basis.

If your outdoor unit was one of these it may be that your modem is still sending out its maximum power, since it has not been recalibrated to work with the new good outdoor unit.  With the new replacement and the modem still putting out its maximum level, the outdoor unit may be overdriven and transmitting a distorted signal.  The hub receiver will evaluate this as poor quality and tell the remote to increase its level further, making matters worse.

I suggest you call BW and get the hub to manually recalibrate the modem output level.

Best regards, Eric.
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« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2009 at 8:31pm by Admin1 »  
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welshbarn
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Reply #28 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 8:22pm  
Thank you Eric, that is very helpful. I have contacted BW with the info and hopefully that might get things back on track.
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cambrian
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Reply #29 - Oct 6th, 2009 at 11:02pm  
Hi,

My system has been working well too for several days, not far distant from Welshbarn. Tonight however, we have a Met. Office "Severe Weather" warning AND IT IS!!! The rain is very heavy and prolonged. TooWay has coped fairly well for a while but has lost lock a few times and been "iffy" (technical term!).

I would not expect it to work in these conditions so perhaps it will improve when the low has gone over us.

Dial up is quite justified when it is as bad as this I think.

Best regards,

Tony
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cambrian
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Reply #30 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 9:34am  
Hi,

Just to underline my comments regarding the weather making life difficult for TooWay users in West Wales yesterday, I have just emptied 41mmm water from my rain gauge. This was collected over the 24hrs. up to 08.00hrs this morning and mostly fell yesterday late evening and early night time.

Perhaps Welshbarn might find that was hampering efforts to set up TooWay!

All is well today with good speeds whichever method of testing I use.

Sadly there are times when the weather here beats the technology and dial-up is the only reliable fall-back!

Best regards,

Tony
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Sean_Williams
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Reply #31 - Oct 7th, 2009 at 11:07am  
Since my last post I've had several very helpful telephone conversations with James at BW and I must say Tooway performance has improved greatly.

Since my post at 01:00 on Oct 1st, I've been keeping a log of all 'apparent' (i.e. based on user experience rather than Speedtest) performance of my Tooway installation.

My first log was at around 08:30 on Oct 1st and the system was positively whizzing along - probably only ever seen it go this well once before.
I'll refer to this log event as a 10/10 and call it a Hoon (as in hooning along!)

For the rest of the day on Oct 1st, the system seemd to vary from a 9/10 to a 5/10.

21:10 - 8/10
21:45 - 3/10. Pretty slow, both to respond and to resolve a web page.
Modem working very hard for not much result.
Transmit and LAN LEDS banging their brains out.

2 October 03:00
The Modem reset itself at 03:00 and then went through the log-on rigmarole.
07:00 - 9/10.

Not wishing to bore everyone with any more stats, I can say in a nutshell that since 07:00 on Oct 2 the system has always performed at around 8/10 to 9/10, with the occasional Hoon thrown in for a spot of exhilaration.
Even over the weekend, which has always been a poor time for Tooway performance in my experience, performance was maintained.

On the evening/night of Oct 6th we had foul weather (as outlined by Cambrian earlier) and did lose the connection a few times. No criticism of that as it really did rain like heck.

To summarise I'd say that since Oct 2 Tooway has been performing exceptionally well on a sustained basis, much better than I've seen before, and is now the system I thought I was subscribing to initially.
In the past, half-decent (6 or 7/10) Tooway performance has never lasted past a week without a repeat drop in performance or usability, so I'm waiting with breath a little bated still.

Thus far, I think BW and Skylogic have made good progress towards a steadily Hooning Tooway system (for us in the UK at least) which is very pleasing Smiley
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welshbarn
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Reply #32 - Oct 8th, 2009 at 8:15pm  
It's looking good!
After contacting BW with Erics advice, my modem dropped out for a couple of hours. This was during the terrible rain that Cambrian mentioned, so maybe caused by that and nothing else. Who knows?
Mr Walker let me know that he was onsite at Hub central and sorting things out.
Since the return of the modem everything has been going well.
No drop outs, good speeds, no hanging and everything groovy.
It is lovely. Please please let it stay like this!
Crossing everything and totally holding breath.
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tortella
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Reply #33 - Oct 12th, 2009 at 6:01pm  
So since last Saturday my Tooway has been completely unusable and with no help or sympathy from my reseller, europe-satellite, I have been forced on to the forums to either see if people are having a similar problem or at least to let off a bit of steam!

Description of problems is as follows:

1) Internet connection constantly dropping
2) Pings getting request timeouts
3) Modem leds are fine, i.e solid RX, flashing TX
4) Bypassed wireless modem and connected directly to tooway modem but issue the same
5) Realigned Dish
6) All was fine till a week ago

Contacted reseller

tortella: Told him of issues and referred to the issues experienced with other tooway customers as seen in thread "On-going Tooway Problems"

Reseller : Stay within your limits (he uses this excuse even when you are well below your limits) or your install is bad. Tells me not to reset my modem (anyone out there explain why I shouldn't reset my modem, how would that affect things?). Then tells me a "frence transponder" is down. Also tells me something about a temporary issue with spanish beam.

tortella : Still having problems. Have they fixed "frence transponder"?

Reseller : Yes and no other of my customers are having a problem

tortella : It must be my alignment so, would you be interested in aligning it for me

Reseller: Stay within your limits (makes no reference to my offer of coming to align my dish)

toretta : Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyone else having similar problems? Feeling fairly left out in the cold here.
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Eric Johnston
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Reply #34 - Oct 12th, 2009 at 10:03pm  
There are four uplink transponders with beams centered on Spain, UK/France, Germany and Italy (see map: Tooway Satellite)

It is quite possible for the Skylogic Turin teleport hub to have problems associated with a particular beam which will affect many or all users in that beam.

While attempting to work around a hub problem it is possible that some remote sites might be being reallocated to different uplink frequencies, in which case the less remote sites are being rebooted the better.

Reports of problems are helpful to enable the full picture to be established.  

Your service provider should access your useage statistics and tell you if you have actually exceeded any of your traffic thresholds.  They can send you a bar chart image showing your actual useage.  Example: http://www.satsig.net/tooway/tooway-traffic-status-001.png

Your service provider can access your uplink and downlink quality records and see graphical analysis.  If your dish pointing has moved or cable deteriorated this is very clear from the graphs. Example:   Tooway signal C/N graphs.

Best regards, Eric.
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tortella
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Reply #35 - Oct 13th, 2009 at 9:37am  
Thanks Eric for that information. It gives me something to chew on at least. I hope I am not deviating from the thread topic but you mention limits. When exactly can you expect to be slowed down. Do you have to be close to 100% or does it starting kicking in when you are in the orange. Common sense seems to dictate that you have to hit 100% before you are slowed down. My weekly limit has nearly been reached so I am going to ease up now, bring it into the green and see if my connection is any better. At least by doing this, once and for all I can rule out that this is not causing the internet drops. I will post back results when usage is at a lower level.
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Reply #36 - Oct 13th, 2009 at 10:47am  
FAP traffic thresholds vary according to tariff paid, for example:

53 Mbytes in 1 hour
100 Mbytes in 4 hours = 25 Mbytes per hour
300 Mbytes in 24 hours (day) = 12.5 Mbytes per hour
800 Mbytes in 168 hours (week) = 4.7 Mbytes per hour
2000 Mbytes in 672 hours (4 weeks) = 2.9 Mbytes per hour

Once you hit any limit you are slowed dowm.

Traffic during the night counts as half.

Your traffic is re-evaluated every 5 minutes on a sliding time window basis.

If you are with Bentley Walker they have developed their own on-line service whereby customers can see the data directly.

Best regards, Eric.
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #37 - Oct 13th, 2009 at 11:35am  
The link for checking your usage with BW is:-

http://www.bentley-walker.com/toowayusage.php.

You will need to ask BW for your Modem BWT number in order to see your usage - it looks something like this BWT00123.

Note - link seems to be down today ?  Can also be tempremental - sometimes you have to enter BWT number twice or more to get the stats.
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tortella
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Reply #38 - Oct 14th, 2009 at 1:09pm  
That's a great link and very beneficial. Thanks broadband-algarve. Thanks also Eric for the sliding window rules for FAP. Regarding my issue it is sill ongoing but europe-satellite seems now to be taking the issue more seriously. I am in the green regarding my usage so that it is definitivly ruled out. He still thinks it is either an alignment or faulty buc. Because the RX and TX drop at the same time he feels that it is probably alignment. Again I have extended an invitation to him to align with payment if the alignment resolves my current problem. He lives only 1 hour away from me. I will post shortly with further updates.
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Broadband-Algarve
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Reply #39 - Oct 14th, 2009 at 5:04pm  
No problem, more than happy to help.

Reading though your comments again I would note that Tooway was down for a few hours last week but did come back on and our modem connected pretty much instantly.  Rang BW and they said it was an issue with the Spanish beam.

Notwithstanding this your connection shouldn't keep dropping.  Sincerely hope you get it sorted soon.
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #40 - Oct 14th, 2009 at 5:58pm  
Quote:
That's a great link and very beneficial. Thanks broadband-algarve. Thanks also Eric for the sliding window rules for FAP. Regarding my issue it is sill ongoing but europe-satellite seems now to be taking the issue more seriously. I am in the green regarding my usage so that it is definitivly ruled out. He still thinks it is either an alignment or faulty buc. Because the RX and TX drop at the same time he feels that it is probably alignment. Again I have extended an invitation to him to align with payment if the alignment resolves my current problem. He lives only 1 hour away from me. I will post shortly with further updates.


I would like to correct you. Normally I wouldn’t use this board for "this kind of comment" but sometimes it gives readers a better view of what is really happening !!

From the beginning we have been taking your problem very seriously, please see our "very long" list of emails during the last few weeks. A problem report like "my internet does not work" is not very helpful to us. Once we found out more about your case through back and forth email conversations,  we responded within 24 hours !!!!!!!!

Also please note this is a self-install (and not installed by us or a recommended installer), therefore we cannot guarantee installations carried out by the client and as a result it is very hard to solve problems in these cases - especially as since your activation you have been between 75-90% of the time close or over the limit and this can cause your ‘connection’ to go  on-off-on-off-on-off etc. etc.

We always advise that you use an experienced VSAT installer who has the required skills and equipment to install a system, this also makes it much easier to locate any problems after installation and give proper support.

In cases of self-install only your hardware is guaranteed (and not installation) and support is limited to this.

You are in Green now but you can easily be in Red again and your problem can start again and again and again, your history proves it.

We have made an offer to you that you return your system so we can check it (and are waiting) or we can visit you on site but this will obviously incur a fee.

Please note this is our ONLY and FINAL comment on this board regarding your case and any further discussion should be carried out via email directly to us.

You can find all information about FAP on our internet site. Spend some time to inform yourself it has been there already for months Smiley

http://www.europe-satellite.com/EMS/systems/systems116.htm

Frits Blomsma

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tortella
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Reply #41 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 5:32pm  
I would prefer to keep my problem public to benefit other users and resellers. The more information is public the more we can all learn. Anyhow over the last day quality of service has improved. For now I have decided not to return the buc to reseller with fingers tightly crossed that quality of service remains.

I've been monitoring my pings today. I get occassional drops but from a surfing point of few these drops are not noticeable. Now for the juicy bit. My partner started uploading via ftp small files of varying nature. Pretty much immediately the connection drops, comes back, drops, comes back. Once she stops uploading via ftp, normal service returns. Now I know we have some knowledgeable technical people contributing to these forums. How do you think I should troublshoot problem with this in mind? As I said when normally surfing I get the odd drop, and when we all normally surf there is always a small TX that we do so it seems that transmitting is contributing to the problem. Is it possible to align your dish using the TX on the buc connected to the sat finder. If I finetuned this way would it be a means to resolving problem? Any help much appreciated by anyone.
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #42 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 6:46pm  
Quote:
Is it possible to align your dish using the TX on the buc connected to the sat finder. If I finetuned this way would it be a means to resolving problem? Any help much appreciated by anyone.

All Tooway KA and KU installation info can be found on our website :

http://www.europe-satellite.com/EMS/systems/systems216.htm
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Eric Johnston
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Reply #43 - Oct 15th, 2009 at 11:04pm  
Regarding ftp file uploads...

These may be regarded as peer-to-peer transmissions and thus afforded only very low bit rate and priority.

Bear in mind that although your uplink instantaneous burst bit rate may be 384kbit/s this only applies when your transmitter is actually transmitting a burst.  There may be 100 or so other sites sharing the same uplink so you only get to transmit a burst occasionally.  This is fine for sending mouse clicks (when browsing) or to send emails and their attachments slowly.

Tooway is consumer level product which offers a range of services, from ultra-cheap basic service with very limited throughput to moderate tariff options with proportionally greater capacity.  Whatever way, you get what you pay for. At the other extreme, if you want dedicated 2 Mbit/s down and 500 kbit/s up, be prepared to pay around $10,000 - $17,500 per month, which is what that costs to provide.

Best regards, Eric.
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #44 - Oct 16th, 2009 at 11:46am  
Quote:
Is it possible to align your dish using the TX on the buc connected to the sat finder. If I finetuned this way would it be a means to resolving problem? Any help much appreciated by anyone.

Just click here to find the answer, finetuning can be only done with professional equipment or an amazing amount of luck Smiley

!! We recommend contacting a local professional VSAT installer who has the right tools/equipment !!

http://www.europe-satellite.com/EMS/pdf_files/satfinder_setup01.pdf
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Sean_Williams
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Reply #45 - Oct 17th, 2009 at 1:33pm  
Quote:
Just click here to find the answer, finetuning can be only done with professional equipment or an amazing amount of luck Smiley


I beg to differ completely!
I have installed two Tooway systems perfectly, without recourse to any luck, simply by following the excellent installation advice given on this forum by Eric, taking care to be accurate, and being patient.
The meter I used is this eminently affordable Horizon MiniSat:
http://www.sdsdigital.co.uk/Horizon-MiniSat-Satellite-signal-finder-pr-815.html
Both installations have been verified as correctly aligned by BW.
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europe-satellite.com
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Reply #46 - Oct 17th, 2009 at 3:11pm  
Quote:
The meter I used is this eminently affordable Horizon MiniSat:
http://www.sdsdigital.co.uk/Horizon-MiniSat-Satellite-signal-finder-pr-815.html
Both installations have been verified as correctly aligned by BW.

Thats what we call a profesional satellite finder, using the right tools and if you read the instructions the job can be done easy. If you dont have the right tools we always advise to contact a vsat installer to makes sure alignment is done 100% right, needed for a good tx/rx signal and stable connection.
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