On-going Tooway Problems

Are you using IE8 because the Cannot Display Webpage is a standard error.  I get it sometimes as does my father, both running XP.  Used to get it more when running Vista .  Clicking the back button and re-accessing the required page seems to work.

Have you asked BW for the statistics for your account.  With this comes a graph which willl show you the RX and TX levels of your system.  You can see immediately see from this where there is downtime because the graph line is not visible.

Are you using a wireless router or are you directly connected to the Tooway modem?  If you are connecting via a router have you tried connecting directly to the Tooway Modem, thereby checking that it's not the router that is the issue?

Where are you based?  Have you gone back to basics and checked the alignment of your dish?

Have you raised this with BW and what reaction are you getting?  What have they run through with you as a way of checks?

Thanks Guys.
I am using IE8 but have no problem if using dial up or a Vodaphone mobile USB.
I am on XP.
It seems to happen in spates. Ok for an hour, then a spate of no webpage found for an hour.
I have logged with BW and they are looking into it but the problem has escalated in the last week. It started with various problems in June, this is just the latest prob.Prior to this there were gaps in the modem being up but these seems to be ok now. Prior to the last week this IE page not found problem has not occured at all (in a year).
Apparently my TX is working full out which isn't good. And BW are looking into that.
I am direct to the modem not wireless, and only one PC.
I am in mid wales and struggle to find anyone who can come and check my alignment.
I can't see how i can be fapped as i can't get on the net!
thanks

Will try that. Thanks Eric.
El Molino has kindly sent me a copy of the FAP stats - which I couldn't access. They showed this weeks stats are 28% of allowance but that 78% of allowance for the pass 4w period.
I have queried it with BW as if I  am I FAP'd or throttled - - then how and why if last week is ok and last month is below quota.
Personally I can't see how my usage is higher than normal unless there is some problem as I have not done anything abnormal and have never been over quota before.
And me being Fap'd would not affect the other user who was also terrible over this last weekend.
I will update when BW get back.
Thanks for the help everyone.

Yup, me too. I've spent most of the last week trying to diagnose the problem. Like you I see abnormal DNS behaviour when communication fails. I've done quite a bit of analysis with wireshark to try and pin down the problem but I can't come up with anything definitive.

To eliminate any issues with my connected PC's I reinstalled XP, virus scanned it & connected it direct to the modem.  And captured all traffic.

When the problem occurs it seems to be preceded by failed dns queries. Actually they are not failed but delayed - the responses come in later - too late for the XP resolver (and also the browser) to recognise them as valid.  They are then discarded.

To get around this I tried upping the XP resolver timeout - its optimised by default for low latency networks. When the system is working well DNS responses come in subsecond which does not trigger a DNS retry. When the system is not working well DNS queries timeout and are retransmitted. Upping the resolver timeout does not always fix this - but it has improved matters slightly.

At the time these DNS anomalies occurred I tried using openDNS as an alternate - and to see if the issue was a failed DNS server or an overloaded one. This did not help.

From what I have seen so far it looks like an inability to send packets up to the satellite that is causing the problem (but this is NOT definitive). Packets are not lost, just delayed. In the case of TCP packets this is not so critical, In the case of DNS packets there is a timing issue - if the resolver can't get the IP address within a certain time, then the result is a page load error. I've seen DNS responses take over 8 sec at times. The standard XP resolver timeout is 1 second.

I have improved the performance of my system by the following:
Increased resolver timeouts (4 8 16 32 64 0)
Increased DNS Cache size.
Increased DNS ttl.
Removed most of the entries from my hosts file to increase DNS cache space (watch out for spyware immunizers that put 2500+ entries in your hosts file)
I also optimised TCP RWIN for a high latency network but I don't think it made a difference.( I did this because I was seeing TCP Zero window packets)

I've sent detailed information (protocol traces showing abnormal behaviour) to my provider but they don't help.

I'm very interested in sharing information with you to help pin down this problem. Can you PM me please ?

I'm also interested in hearing from anyone with a detailed knowledge of how the software in the modem works with regard to uplink congestion control.



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I am  thrilled to find someone else having the same problems! (although I pity you too!) as this will hopefully provide enough info to convince the providers it is a real problem. . Will PM shortly. Haven't heard back from BW yet about whether or not I am Fap'd.
Cheers.

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Contact us and/or click on the following link to get free traffic info and a pointing advise.

http://www.europe-satellite.com/EMS/contact/traffic_info_request.htm

I too am in Wales, not far from Welshbarn and Cambrian and I'm having similar problems.
The system works well for two or three days and then reverts to what is fast becoming it's default state - i.e. nearly useless.
I haven't bothered contacting Bentley Walker by telephone, or raising a support ticket with them as Welshbarn's experience of doing this is so disheartening: BW either obfuscate, close the ticket or try and blame the installation; that's if they reply at all.
Their latest idea is it may be the LNB assembly - they've now admitted they are aware of a bad batch of these.
If this is indeed the case, I should like to know why we weren't informed?

BW constantly repeat the assertion that the installation must be at fault. In that case, could it be explained to me how the system can work perfectly for a few days (I think the record is 5 straight days for me) before falling over?
Back in the summer, my system not only maintained a connection but was perfectly usable during the foulest weather (if slower); surely this puts paid to the possibility of a poor installation?

Whatever,  the upshot is a clear disinclination of BW to solve our connection problems on Tooway, while at the same time trousering the 170-odd Euro a quarter for a service that is not fit for purpose.
A revealing comment was made by a member of BW's support team the other day, which in effect boiled down to the fact that BW have government and military contracts to service which take clear priority over us poor sap Tooway customers.

Regarding FAP, I use an Internet (not LAN) traffic monitor (BWMeter) to keep an eye on things and do not go anywhere near the hourly limit, let alone the daily limit.

Finally I've had enough of being treated like this and I am going to raise a complaint at BW along with a support ticket following which I shall be tenacious in my pursuit of a resolution.
I am keeping a log of the system performance.

May I ask all Tooway users having connection difficulties to do the same, then maybe BW will get their act together and we'll finally receive the service we're paying so highly for.

Still no word from BW but something definitely happened last night between 7pm and 9pm. For a week I have been getting the "page not found error" nearly every page I tried to browse. Last night the modem connection disappeared apparently whilst I was away from the pc. When I came back my net meter had logged 60mb download (which was not me - but could possibly have been internal traffic - unlikely though). Since then my connection has been fine. I can browse and no page not found errors. The speed was really good too.
This morning the up speed is poor but the down speed is ok. No timeouts so far.
Interestingly the only two pages I cannot access (they just hang ) are the BW ticket system and the BW Usage monitor!
Hoping to get more information later on. Perhaps something has been found?

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My recent analysis seems to bear this out. Perhaps someone could provide some statistics on the Satellite throughput over the last weeks. Could be illuminating.

I can assure you 100% this is not the reason for any poor performance issues that Ka is short of capacity . Ku has been recommended to even balance the roll out until the new Satellite Ka sat is ready in 2010 there has been a batch of low emission heads and there was also some issues with IP release but apart these matters the systems runs well on Ka or Ku , if you are a BW customer with any issues please raise a ticket and we will investigate

Isn't it always the way - as soon as I complain, there's an improvement in the service, so I can't raise a ticket as the system is working fine

I tend not to use Tooway during the day, apart from weekends, so I can't vouch for it today, but last evening (23:00 - 01:00) it was working 'OK'.
This morning at 07:00 however it was positively hooning along - I've only ever seeing it work this well once before.
Normally, when Tooway is working 'OK', it's CLICK, one, two, three seconds before the reponse begins to download in the browser, whereas this morning it was CLICK, one and a response - almost like ADSL!

This has of course set a standard for Tooway to aspire to - they have shown the system can be fast and eminently usable, whereas the 'OK' service I have become used to is noticeably slower and less responsive.

I must say, I tend not to judge the service by Speedtest as I've found it can Speedtest perfectly well, whereas the experience of browsing may be very different. It's the quick response that I'm looking for.
A system that downloads web pages at a reasonable speed, but only after a few second's pause is actually no better than Dial Up when comparing the time taken to complete a page. On several occasions lately, I would say Dial Up would have been preferable, as at least it responds instantly.

HTH

Dear Cambrian

regarding our email system this had NOTHING to do with internal networking etc and all to do with Demon Internet going pearhsaped Nationally .its now fixed but we were able to continue working the whole Company on our back up satellite feed  ,there was a backlog of tickets as we support over 6000 VSATS Worldwide its not suprising some delays were incurred however I would call that fairly enterprising action dont you ?

If you need to know more your welcome to call me 00442392463943

Anthony Walker

All worked very well from Thursday last week until Monday. Good speeds, fast response and no "page no found " problems.
New TX RX head arrived. Fitted it.
Back to slow speeds, intermittent "page not found" and generally poor performance again.

It is raining. So maybe it is down to that. Will update when things change.

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If your outdoor unit was one of these it may be that your modem is still sending out its maximum power, since it has not been recalibrated to work with the new good outdoor unit.  With the new replacement and the modem still putting out its maximum level, the outdoor unit may be overdriven and transmitting a distorted signal.  The hub receiver will evaluate this as poor quality and tell the remote to increase its level further, making matters worse.

I suggest you call BW and get the hub to manually recalibrate the modem output level.

Best regards, Eric.

Hi,

My system has been working well too for several days, not far distant from Welshbarn. Tonight however, we have a Met. Office "Severe Weather" warning AND IT IS!!! The rain is very heavy and prolonged. TooWay has coped fairly well for a while but has lost lock a few times and been "iffy" (technical term!).

I would not expect it to work in these conditions so perhaps it will improve when the low has gone over us.

Dial up is quite justified when it is as bad as this I think.

Best regards,

Tony

Since my last post I've had several very helpful telephone conversations with James at BW and I must say Tooway performance has improved greatly.

Since my post at 01:00 on Oct 1st, I've been keeping a log of all 'apparent' (i.e. based on user experience rather than Speedtest) performance of my Tooway installation.

My first log was at around 08:30 on Oct 1st and the system was positively whizzing along - probably only ever seen it go this well once before.
I'll refer to this log event as a 10/10 and call it a Hoon (as in hooning along!)

For the rest of the day on Oct 1st, the system seemd to vary from a 9/10 to a 5/10.

21:10 - 8/10
21:45 - 3/10. Pretty slow, both to respond and to resolve a web page.
Modem working very hard for not much result.
Transmit and LAN LEDS banging their brains out.

2 October 03:00
The Modem reset itself at 03:00 and then went through the log-on rigmarole.
07:00 - 9/10.

Not wishing to bore everyone with any more stats, I can say in a nutshell that since 07:00 on Oct 2 the system has always performed at around 8/10 to 9/10, with the occasional Hoon thrown in for a spot of exhilaration.
Even over the weekend, which has always been a poor time for Tooway performance in my experience, performance was maintained.

On the evening/night of Oct 6th we had foul weather (as outlined by Cambrian earlier) and did lose the connection a few times. No criticism of that as it really did rain like heck.

To summarise I'd say that since Oct 2 Tooway has been performing exceptionally well on a sustained basis, much better than I've seen before, and is now the system I thought I was subscribing to initially.
In the past, half-decent (6 or 7/10) Tooway performance has never lasted past a week without a repeat drop in performance or usability, so I'm waiting with breath a little bated still.

Thus far, I think BW and Skylogic have made good progress towards a steadily Hooning Tooway system (for us in the UK at least) which is very pleasing

So since last Saturday my Tooway has been completely unusable and with no help or sympathy from my reseller, europe-satellite, I have been forced on to the forums to either see if people are having a similar problem or at least to let off a bit of steam!

Description of problems is as follows:

1) Internet connection constantly dropping
2) Pings getting request timeouts
3) Modem leds are fine, i.e solid RX, flashing TX
4) Bypassed wireless modem and connected directly to tooway modem but issue the same
5) Realigned Dish
6) All was fine till a week ago

Contacted reseller

tortella: Told him of issues and referred to the issues experienced with other tooway customers as seen in thread "On-going Tooway Problems"

Reseller : Stay within your limits (he uses this excuse even when you are well below your limits) or your install is bad. Tells me not to reset my modem (anyone out there explain why I shouldn't reset my modem, how would that affect things?). Then tells me a "frence transponder" is down. Also tells me something about a temporary issue with spanish beam.

tortella : Still having problems. Have they fixed "frence transponder"?

Reseller : Yes and no other of my customers are having a problem

tortella : It must be my alignment so, would you be interested in aligning it for me

Reseller: Stay within your limits (makes no reference to my offer of coming to align my dish)

toretta : Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyone else having similar problems? Feeling fairly left out in the cold here.

Thanks Eric for that information. It gives me something to chew on at least. I hope I am not deviating from the thread topic but you mention limits. When exactly can you expect to be slowed down. Do you have to be close to 100% or does it starting kicking in when you are in the orange. Common sense seems to dictate that you have to hit 100% before you are slowed down. My weekly limit has nearly been reached so I am going to ease up now, bring it into the green and see if my connection is any better. At least by doing this, once and for all I can rule out that this is not causing the internet drops. I will post back results when usage is at a lower level.

The link for checking your usage with BW is:-

http://www.bentley-walker.com/toowayusage.php.

You will need to ask BW for your Modem BWT number in order to see your usage - it looks something like this BWT00123.

Note - link seems to be down today ?  Can also be tempremental - sometimes you have to enter BWT number twice or more to get the stats.

No problem, more than happy to help.

Reading though your comments again I would note that Tooway was down for a few hours last week but did come back on and our modem connected pretty much instantly.  Rang BW and they said it was an issue with the Spanish beam.

Notwithstanding this your connection shouldn't keep dropping.  Sincerely hope you get it sorted soon.

I would prefer to keep my problem public to benefit other users and resellers. The more information is public the more we can all learn. Anyhow over the last day quality of service has improved. For now I have decided not to return the buc to reseller with fingers tightly crossed that quality of service remains.

I've been monitoring my pings today. I get occassional drops but from a surfing point of few these drops are not noticeable. Now for the juicy bit. My partner started uploading via ftp small files of varying nature. Pretty much immediately the connection drops, comes back, drops, comes back. Once she stops uploading via ftp, normal service returns. Now I know we have some knowledgeable technical people contributing to these forums. How do you think I should troublshoot problem with this in mind? As I said when normally surfing I get the odd drop, and when we all normally surf there is always a small TX that we do so it seems that transmitting is contributing to the problem. Is it possible to align your dish using the TX on the buc connected to the sat finder. If I finetuned this way would it be a means to resolving problem? Any help much appreciated by anyone.

Regarding ftp file uploads...

These may be regarded as peer-to-peer transmissions and thus afforded only very low bit rate and priority.

Bear in mind that although your uplink instantaneous burst bit rate may be 384kbit/s this only applies when your transmitter is actually transmitting a burst.  There may be 100 or so other sites sharing the same uplink so you only get to transmit a burst occasionally.  This is fine for sending mouse clicks (when browsing) or to send emails and their attachments slowly.

Tooway is consumer level product which offers a range of services, from ultra-cheap basic service with very limited throughput to moderate tariff options with proportionally greater capacity.  Whatever way, you get what you pay for. At the other extreme, if you want dedicated 2 Mbit/s down and 500 kbit/s up, be prepared to pay around $10,000 - $17,500 per month, which is what that costs to provide.

Best regards, Eric.

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I beg to differ completely!
I have installed two Tooway systems perfectly, without recourse to any luck, simply by following the excellent installation advice given on this forum by Eric, taking care to be accurate, and being patient.
The meter I used is this eminently affordable Horizon MiniSat:
http://www.sdsdigital.co.uk/Horizon-MiniSat-Satellite-signal-finder-pr-815.html
Both installations have been verified as correctly aligned by BW.